The finish on AVRI and CS Time Machine strats

[Bluester]

What's the difference? I saw a picture of Mike hansens '97 relic strat that looked real nice and worn. I have a sunburst MIA '62 reissue that I've only had for 2 months or something, and the finish is still intact. I've heard that the nitro on the AVRI is thicker than on the Time Machine strats, is this true?

[Tim C.]

The nitro is thinner on the relic series time machine strats.

In 1997 the finish work on the relics was done by an outside vendor for Fender. Hopefully Vince, the owner of that company will show up here.

The neck radius was different in 1997 as well.

Many prefer the pre time machine series relics over the new ones. They are both excellent guitars, just different.

Tim C.

[Black Bear]

My 57RI is getting some wear along the edges of the fretboard after about two years of hard playing. I've also go a small patch right along the edge of the body contour where my arm rubs.

[burst_king]

I've been wondering how long it would take to wear down the finish. My new strat was finished in nitro. I like the look of the relics, but want to do the work myself. Thanks for the snippit Black Bear! :)

[Bluester]

Yeah, nice to hear the reissues have a chance of becoming worn too!

[burst_king]

All of the Am. Vintage RIs have a poly undercoar, poly base coat, and then two nitro laquer top coats.

The CS guitars are all nitro.

[Bluester]

Originally posted by burst_king
All of the Am. Vintage RIs have a poly undercoar, poly base coat, and then two nitro laquer top coats.

The CS guitars are all nitro.

What does this mean? Is the color nitro, or are there just two clear coats of nitro?

[burst_king]

What that means is that even though the nitro layers will wear and check, the guitar is still encased in plastic. It won't breath when the finish checks, that will be a purely cosmetic thing. The basecoat is the color (I believe). I'm wondering about the CAR finished ones, thos need a few different colored base coats. Either way, the wood won't try over time. These facts don't make the guitar a "bad" guitar, but the illusion that they are all nitro is false.

[Bluester]

It sounds like I need to refinish my strat then. Damn.

[burst_king]

Well, it's really a matter of choice. I have a '62 RI Tele that has the poly base and under coats, but it still sounds great. The nitro issue really only applies if you're going to play it a lot anyway or it'll be an investment. Keep in mind that if you don't play it then it won't really "age" anyway, meaning that the laquer won't sink in. If it IS your main guitar then yes, you may want to have it refinished. That, or you could take off any parts that you wanted to keep (the neck is still nitro) and sell the rest. You can add the money that you make to the pot and buy a '56, '60, or masterbuild. The reason that I don't say '69 is because they have a poly basecoat, true to the original.



Wee-hoo! I'm the first one to 100 posts (ahem, realistically)! :bigal








Oh the time I've wasted LOL! :bigal

[bjm007]

Originally posted by burst_king
What that means is that even though the nitro layers will wear and check, the guitar is still encased in plastic. It won't breath when the finish checks, that will be a purely cosmetic thing. The basecoat is the color (I believe). I'm wondering about the CAR finished ones, thos need a few different colored base coats. Either way, the wood won't try over time. These facts don't make the guitar a "bad" guitar, but the illusion that they are all nitro is false.

You got it right,

The American Re-Issues have a urethane undercoat, then the nitro is on TOP of that! Why bother? What's the point?

I played 'em both side by side, then sold all my Amercican RI's and bought a bunch of Custom Shop stuff...

It was well worth the slight amount of extra $$$

[Bluester]

I've been thinking of building a strat from parts, a hardtail body finished in transparent brown, nitro of course. Maybe I'll just buy a body and have it finsihed and swap out the body on my reissue. Hmmm, that seems like a good idea...

[Marcondo]

Look on Ebay do a search for 57 or 62 find some pics of 80's models of the 57 and 62ri Strats you will see what they look like when the top lacquer coats wears off its just a solid color underneath not at all like the Strat you see at the top of the page here or like SRV's where the real wood shows thru uncovered.

I worked in a guitar shop here in Bakersfield for 10 years from 1975-85. Refinished alot of old original Strats and Teles and it was easy to tell the all nitro ones cause they were so easy to strip. The poly ones sometime had to be put in plastic bags to make the stripper work better and several applications of it to boot. The nitro ones when the stripper is applied the finish bubbles right up its on the old ones very thin and you can wipe it right off with a shop rag.

Thats why the old ones wear so nice fingerboards too. Leo didnt apply the finish extra thin to make it sustain longer or breathe better just the simple fact less paint on each guitar means they can paint more guitars.

I have also done experiments with poly vs nitro on the same guitar. A friend had a poly finished Tele he just had to have it finished in nitro so I told him bring it over we will make some quick recordings and see how much better it sounds after its finished in nitro. So we made reference recordings then a couple months later after he had it refinished in nitro we made more recordings and compared it to the poly body recordings we made. Neither of us could tell any difference at all. My friend who had just paid $250 for the nitro refinish job really wanted it to sound better but it didnt.

Poly is much thicker than nitro in fact 1 coat of poly is equal to 10 coats of nitro as far as finish thickness goes.

So dont let the poly vs nitro delima get ya all wound up cause in reality on a solid body guitar it doesnt make THAT much difference.

[Bluester]

I do not care about any sound difference, I just want the finish to wear off as quickly as possible. Naturally, of course, I'm not gonna "relic" my guitar.

[burst_king]

Well, "quickly" is a relative term. It's going to take years of playing to wear down, although I would imagine that if you gig it every night, don't wipe it down, and keep the whole process up for a year or so, you could get "interesting" results.

[Nigel]

Good post, Marcondo. I agree with your points.

I think all things considered, I'd prefer an all nitro finished strat, but while sitting here surfing the net I'm noodling on a '62 RI Amer Vintage strat and it's one hell of a nice guitar. :) It plays great, sounds great and is very well built regardless of the finish details.

[Black Bear]

I've got the blonde finished ash body. I don't have any proof but I think the finish is a bit thinner on those. The lacquer clear rubbed off pretty quick around my arm because of a ding in the finish there... If there's poly under there it wasn't very thick, either.

[Mr. Z]

I also agree with Marcondo on the non-issue of poly versus nitro when it comes to solid body guitars.
I had a '97/'52 reissue tele that had the urethane undercoat and I decided to refinish it completely in nitro, sounded the same after the refin.
Afterwards I built a Warmoth tele out of swamp ash with a maple neck and painted it all nitro--sanding sealer, base coat, color and top coats were all nitro. Both guitars had the same pickups and sounded the same. The only difference was in the way the finish of the guitars looked and felt, but sound-wise I could not tell a difference. :cowb

[Stanze]

I own a '57 Reissue and a '62 AV. I used to worry about those details(nitro/poly), but my main guitar is a American Std. Strat and I've realized that I care more about my playing than what kind of finish is on my guitar. Hell, it all chips and cracks(the finish)the same when you throw your guitar on the floor after a great performance! or not so great LOL.


Rock on!
-Stanze

[rsrelic]

Originally posted by Marcondo
Look on Ebay do a search for 57 or 62 find some pics of 80's models of the 57 and 62ri Strats you will see what they look like when the top lacquer coats wears off its just a solid color underneath not at all like the Strat you see at the top of the page here or like SRV's where the real wood shows thru uncovered.

I worked in a guitar shop here in Bakersfield for 10 years from 1975-85. Refinished alot of old original Strats and Teles and it was easy to tell the all nitro ones cause they were so easy to strip. The poly ones sometime had to be put in plastic bags to make the stripper work better and several applications of it to boot. The nitro ones when the stripper is applied the finish bubbles right up its on the old ones very thin and you can wipe it right off with a shop rag.

Thats why the old ones wear so nice fingerboards too. Leo didnt apply the finish extra thin to make it sustain longer or breathe better just the simple fact less paint on each guitar means they can paint more guitars.

I have also done experiments with poly vs nitro on the same guitar. A friend had a poly finished Tele he just had to have it finished in nitro so I told him bring it over we will make some quick recordings and see how much better it sounds after its finished in nitro. So we made reference recordings then a couple months later after he had it refinished in nitro we made more recordings and compared it to the poly body recordings we made. Neither of us could tell any difference at all. My friend who had just paid $250 for the nitro refinish job really wanted it to sound better but it didnt.

Poly is much thicker than nitro in fact 1 coat of poly is equal to 10 coats of nitro as far as finish thickness goes.

So dont let the poly vs nitro delima get ya all wound up cause in reality on a solid body guitar it doesnt make THAT much difference.

You can't test poly against new lacquer. I have 17 years as a guitar builder, and refinisher, and can say that lacquer sounds like crap for the first six months to a year while it dries out, then it will really sound sweat. Poly sounds the same the if it's ten years old or ten days old. Also modern polly has a two or three to one build compaired to lacquer, but it's all based on how both are sprayed.