the real truth about mexican pickups

[frank52]

i have played fenders for over 35 years and i swear every day they get more confusing. in my time there was one strat and one tele. pick your color and this was it. now, there are about 50 different fender pickups. what the hell is going on? just the mexican ones include the standard, the 50s, the 60s, the tex-mex, etc. now will someone tell me once and for all what are the differences if any other than the name? and if you can tell me the difference between these and the usa pups. they way i understand it is nothing is actually made in mexico. the parts are usa and assembled there. cheap labor, etc. i want to hear from an expert and not somebody just guessing or giving second hand information. tell me about heneries, inductance, windings, the whole truth and nothing but.

[Chris Kinman]

I'm something of an expert regarding pickups, but I'm as confused as you are. What I can tell you is that often there are often only very minor differences between various models. This seems to be more about market penetration than actual offering variety of meritable products. I just dont understand how the ordinary man can make a decision with all the options available.

Seems like you just gotta not wander too far from what you have known and been happy with. If you like the old faithful Strat's and Tele's that only came in one kind but different colours then you are not missing out on anything by avoiding modern so called improved instruments. Many so-called improvements have little or no merit and often even prove to be retrograde steps. For my money there just aint much that's better than the originals, maybe an original or reissue with some noiseless pickups and better nut material.

[Motojunkie]

I'm something of an expert regarding pickups......

Understatement of the century!

[Constellation80]

I bought a fender clone the other day, and the pickups sounded exactly like a MIM standard.. I had to sit back for min cause i couldn't figure it out.
Thats why the US ones have lace sence or noiseless, to give them a more unique sound thats harder to duplicate. But it's not only the picups but the pots change the sound too. I think everything on the US fender is better. But that being siad one of the best deals ever was those California strats.. US body , MIM parts. I love those !

[chuckocaster]

MIM's use cts pots also, fyi.

[NeoFauve]

I just dont understand how the ordinary man can make a decision with all the options available.

Ya' walk into your friendly neighborhood guitar shop, plug one in and play it.:wail2
Heneries, inductance, windings, scmindings. Whatever sounds good to a player, is good to that player.
I'm pretty ordinary, and that's what I do.

[telecast]

Ya' walk into your friendly neighborhood guitar shop, plug one in and play it.:wail2
Heneries, inductance, windings, scmindings. Whatever sounds good to a player, is good to that player.
I'm pretty ordinary, and that's what I do.

Exactly. Why on earth would anyone buy a new guitar and PLAN to change Pups? If it doesn't do it for you, why get it? The only time I mess with Pups is if I'm doing a project, and then I stay close to home. Texas Specials have a pronounced sound, as do American Series and the Fat 50's. If I can't make the noise I need with one of them, forget it.

[CocoTone]

Our expert is right on with respect to sticking to a formula that works. I stick to the origional style Strat, the AM 62 reissue, as that what I can afford, and is as close to an origional as can be with respect to tone, and construction. Sure a custom shop would be closer, and more $$$$,, but not enough to make that much of a diff.


CT.

[Kap'n]

Exactly. Why on earth would anyone buy a new guitar and PLAN to change Pups?

Because you might have a predispostion to Hamels, Rolphs, Voodoos, Kinmans, etc. which don't come stock in any guitar.

One of the reasons I bought my 50th Anniversary Strat was because I knew I wouldn't have to change pickups on it. If I went AmSeries, I knew that I would change them eventually.

[telecast]

Because you might have a predispostion to Hamels, Rolphs, Voodoos, Kinmans, etc. which don't come stock in any guitar.

One of the reasons I bought my 50th Anniversary Strat was because I knew I wouldn't have to change pickups on it. If I went AmSeries, I knew that I would change them eventually.

Ok, thanks for proving my point. If you buy a guitar that sounds good out of the box, you'd never be able to establish a 'predisposition'.

[Kap'n]

If you buy a guitar that sounds good out of the box, you'd never be able to establish a 'predisposition'.

It's human nature to tinker and modify. A lot of people don't like the pickups that come stock. If everybody liked them then there wouldn't be any business for

Bill Lawrence
Lawrence Sound Research
OBL
Seymour Duncan
Larry DiMarzio
Chris Kinman
Bartolini
Shadow
Rolph
Hamel
P.J. Marx
T.W. Doyle
GFS
Kent Armstrong
EMG
Lace Actodyne
Lindy Fralin
VooDoo
Joe Barden
Schaller
etc.

Besides, you shouldn't discount a guitar that plays well, and feels good, just because the pickups suck. And there are plenty of sucky pickups out there.

[telecast]

Moreover, a lot of people tinker because that's all they have to do. I'm going to hazard a wild guess that a HUGE part of aftermarket parts sales are couch players. When you sit home and evaluate the guitar all day, you're going to hear things you don't like, real or imagined. 99% of those things would never be discernable in a band situation.

I have never ever changed pickups in a guitar I bought to play. I have changed them in guitars I bought for a project. Once they're in, the chance of me changing them again is slim to none. I have never had anyone come up to me and complain about the way I sound, or suggest I need different pickups. There's a point of diminishing returns with anything, and IMO, you've reached it well before you spend multiple hundreds of dollars for a set of Tele pups.

Discounting a guitar that doesn't sound good is a personal preference, thanks. Changing pickups is no guarantee the guitar will ever sound the way you want.

[Kap'n]

I have never ever changed pickups in a guitar I bought to play.

Congratulations. Accept the fact that other people, in fact, do change their pickups, and can be satisfied with the result.

Otherwise, this conversation is pointless.

[NeoFauve]

I took the initial quesion to be about the variety of stock Fender p'ups.

Choosing replacements or p'ups for a project is a whole other deal.
I still lean toward something I've actually heard, hopefully firsthand.

[telecast]

I never said I didn't accept it, I just don't understand it. I don't get why someone would spend $1,000 or more on a guitar knowing full well they would be dropping another $300 on pickups.

I can understand this philosphy though, with a less expensive guitar. Take a MIM for example. A guy spends $369 and wants it to sound a little different (better?), so for $100-125 he drops a set of Fat 50's or Vintage pups in it. Now that does make sense. It stops making sense when the pickup investment reaches 2/3 the price of the guitar, or when the cost of the guitar is such that it should sound good to begin with.

I guess it's more of a price point thing for me. Then again, I'm cheap anyway.

[Marcondo]

Here is what I have found over the years. A good guitar sounds good no matter what pickups are in it and you cant make a bad sounding guitar sound as good by changing pickups.

As to answer the original question the MIM Tele pickups bridge doesnt have a baseplate and they are wound on plastic bobbins. They use the same model in several different guitars the HWY1 Strat has the same pickups as the 50's Classic Strat MIM and the HWY1 Tele uses the same pickups the 50's Classic MIM Tele uses. If you go to Mr gearhead and look at the Fender parts numbers you can see how they use the same pickups in several models.

[photoweborama]

I don't mind the sound of the MiM standard ceramic pickups, except I've had a few where the high E had very low volume. That the main reason I changed the pickups in my first MiM standard. I still prefer the sound of Alnico magnets, but ceramics in general can sound really good.

I got that mini Squire for my son and for some reason, it sounds great, and very balanced, string to string. so far, that's the only set of ceramics I really like a lot. And they wax potted them. I don't remember if they do that to MiM standard pups...

[Offshore Angler]

Exactly. Why on earth would anyone buy a new guitar and PLAN to change Pups?

Because it's a lot easier to change pups and pots and brag about your tone than it is to become a great guitar player.


That's why.

[telecast]

Wow, OA is more cynical than I am!

I suspect there's a lot of truth to that, but I also think there are some guys that just love to tinker. I love to tinker, but I'd rather do a whole guitar than dink around with a component. :)

[NeoFauve]

Because it's a lot easier to change pups and pots and brag about your tone than it is to become a great guitar player.


That's why.

Ouch!
There IS an off chance that one's greatness could emerge right after a p'up/pot swap.
It'd be cool, and mighty handy, if there was a meter to measure the relationship of one to the other.

But what the hey, revelling in what you hear when you play is what makes the good stuff happen. I suppose there's lots of ways to reach that state.

[detuned]

I bought my first tele because I wanted a change. Played great, took a while to acclimate to the "tele mindset". Youknow, having tone pots that actually do something. :-)

After a while, I decided that although I liked the way the guitar played, it didn't sound quite right. Too polite. Too much like my strat, & not enough like the "blizzard of nails" tele signature sound.

So I swapped in a set of Fender CS Texas Teles pups. Much better. Saved me from having to sell the guitar & start the search all over.

That's why *I* swapped mine. YMMV.

FWIW, I don't claim to be a great player. Just another geezer that used to play out.

Incidentally, I was temporarily overtaken by modding fever & though about changing the pups in my '87 strat. That is, until I plugged it in. Sounds great, why mess with success?

[sabby]

Ok, thanks for proving my point. If you buy a guitar that sounds good out of the box, you'd never be able to establish a 'predisposition'.

I've come across precisely ... um ... about ZERO of these. Even my homebrews have taken some pup swaping to get things right. Seriously, the guitar that I've bought that felt good have usually had stiff of muddy pups. The one's that sound good I couldn't afford or played not to my liking.

Oh well, just another day in a random and meaningless universe. YMMV.

[Offshore Angler]

I hear you guys, but good Tele tone is almost all amp and player. You pump a stock ASe through a cranked BadCat, Dr. Z, or a Matchless, and pickup brand becomes pretty moot.

If you used a crapola amp, it will sound like crapola no matter who wound your pups.

Sorry, but's that the way life is in the real world of TPFM (Tele Playing For Money.)

[juniorspecial]

Hey,

Not to change the subject or anything, but there's a lot more variety of everything.

Any idea how many different kinds of Coca-Cola there are now, including different size bottles?

"Let's see, I want Diet, Caffeine-free, Vanilla-flavored, Lactose-intolerant, aspartame-free Coke, in a 12 ounce can."

"No can do, Mister. That only comes in a half-liter bottle, in an eight pack. And we aren't allowed to break up eight-packs."



You go to a big Supermarket, and you ever notice how many diffent kinds af salt there are now? You can get butter-flavored, and onion-flavored, and wacky-colored, and Kosher, and Sea, and artificial, and seasoned, and seafood, and cajun, and Jesus it just goes on and on.

Obviously, if they can make that many different kinds of salt, the number of possible guitar pickups is infinite.

Don't get me started on boring looking sedans!

:lol

[Julian]

Moreover, a lot of people tinker because that's all they have to do. I'm going to hazard a wild guess that a HUGE part of aftermarket parts sales are couch players. When you sit home and evaluate the guitar all day, you're going to hear things you don't like, real or imagined. 99% of those things would never be discernable in a band situation.

I think you are on to something there. For me there are two very interesting aspects of guitar playing. First is the gear, second is the actual ability one has to play the instrument. The gear is the easiest part to improve for most couch players. Couch players work 40 hours a week and play for fun. They don't have much time to practice. For them it's a hobby they like to spend money on. Sometimes it's easy to feel more satisfied by the quality of the gear you have than your ability to actually play it. I am a couch player. I haven't jammed in a band in 10 years. I have swapped pickups, drooled over guitars and amps, but then I came to my senses. I have one good guitar that stays in tune, one amp that sounds pretty good, but would never work in a band situation, and I practice when I feel like it. I've thought of buying more gear, but really, what is the point? I have perfectly fine gear to keep me satisfied. I feel a greater sense of accomplishment from learning a new blues lick than from buying new pickups.

[Offshore Angler]

Don'r get me wrong. Tinkering is fine. It's fun, I do it, and there is some sort of special bond that you get from playing an instrument you built or modded.

But the issue becomes that the differences aren't enough to matter when you play live in most cases. I do it this way - if I have one I like but it sounds not to my liking, I'm not goning to change from Texas Specials to Bill Lawrences. I'm going to make a HUGE, major change and try to make it sound REALLY different. I find that pup changes work the best when you go to the extremes. If I have a Strat that I want to sound freaking huge and hairy, I'll drop HotRails in it and make it a screamer. That sort of thing.

Talking about sublte differences and then pumping it through house sound doesn't work - for me.

I choose between regular and noiseless. Glassy or overwound. When in doubt, hotter is better. Give me lots of treble and mids. Those mains will add all the girth I need. If I have too much bass, it gets muddy in the mix. Mids are what separate you from the band, and treble gives you the edge.

Course, I once used the neck pup on a Strat in 1975...

[Constellation80]

telecast does have a point, but I think a good reason some people change pickups. is for variety. I know my self I have a Gibson Sg standard, and i just bought a Gibson Sg fadded. And I plan to drop some 57 classic pickups in it.
Not that I think the 490's sound bad (infact i love them) but I want it to sound a lil differnt then my other SG. Cause whats the point of ditto ditto.
So I can see why many guys who have 5 strats 3 teles what ever would wanna experment or change pickups. So they still ahve what they love and it's a lil dit differn't then the others to keep things interesting

[Chris Kinman]

I see we've had somewhat of an explosion here .... it's great to see so much activity. As a pickup manufacturer I can tell you I see a lot of players fall in love with a beautiful guitar regardless of how it sounds, knowing full well they can make it sound the way they want simply by changing pickups. And they have a lot of fun doing it too. They learn stuff, have the experience and the reward of satisfaction ..... satisfaction of customizing their own guitar.

And then there is another group who have a guitar for years and years, unchanged. Then it happens one day they compare it to a friends guitar, or they start to play a different style, or whatever....and they become dissatisfied with the pickups thay have and start looking around for replacements to give them the improvements they need. A classic example is getting sick and tired of annoying 60Hz noise, a subject close to my own heart. They love their guitar (like a wife or girlfriend) and dont want to part with it and changing pickups is the perfect solution.

But when you look around the pickup market place is quite bewildering and confusing, thus the original post in this thread. People need to make informed choices and information is essential to them. That's why they like to know stuff about pickups. Technical specs is one way someone might make a decision, not the preferred way but if that's all you know......

[photoweborama]

I like to work on guitars also. It's fun. but I'm trying leave my guitars strock, or the basic stuff stock so I can learn to hear what I think the designer felt what the guitar would sound like.

I only have three guitars now. A stock AmSer Strat, a stock Epi LP standard, and the parts Tele, which of course is not stock because it came from a bunch of different guitars.

I can't always leave them stock. I'll change pots and switches. I'll shield them also, but leave teh stock pups.

[Chris Kinman]

Designers are people sitting in offices with a parts price list trying to squeeze performance into a price point at the behest of the sales department. I call them bean counters, counting the cents and dollars it takes to make a product in order to minimize costs and maximize profits. You have to be aware that in this extremely price conscious world 98% of the time you will get what you paid for. I have seen a 2 cent piece of wire designed out of a product to make it that much easier and cheaper to make, that missing piece of wire eventually led to problems for many players.

I heard that General Motors dismissed 28,000 production employees last year in one hit. Those folks were Americans my friends, they lost their jobs because other Americans didn't want to pay the price for quality cars that it costs to make them. Result, even cheaply MIA cars can not compete with imports from low labour cost countries. Where is this all gonna end? One speculation is that the US will no longer be the strongest power, China will. And that scares me.

I put my money where my mouth is too, I try to source materials and components for my products from western countries as much as possible. But it gets harder by the day as my supply companies are forced out of local production and driven to China, India wherever....in order to remain competitive. But in doing so have to shed staff. Its just one big ever decreasing circle that's gonna change our lives dramatically in the not too distant future. Did I digress??? uhhh sorry....I had that on my mind and it just flowed on from the post above, not that photoweborama is overly implicated, he seems to have a couple of US made guitars in his collection so, kudos to him. Buy western....buy buy buy and keep our countries strong.....I say.

Buying western made pickups and custom parts for our western guitars all helps the cause. Lets not entertain MIM stuff when so much great stuff is available from western sources for what really are great prices, considering the cost of producing them is disproportionately higher then for low labour cost sources.

[telecast]

Um...last time I checked, Mexico was in the western hemisphere. It is, in fact, just down the road from California.

[Chris Kinman]

Of course you're right.. but it Mexico IS a low labour cost country (which was my point), no disputing that.

[sabby]

Where is this all gonna end?

Um, ... I got it: When every job that pays a living wage with purchasing power is replaced with one paying poverty wages. Hell of a plan, eh?

One speculation is that the US will no longer be the strongest power, China will. And that scares me.

If the Chinese pay their workers I'd be cool with it. It'd be better than what our American political and business leaders are doing. (Mind you, have no more faith in Chinese leadership, just suprising little more in American bosses.)

[Kap'n]

I heard that General Motors dismissed 28,000 production employees last year in one hit. Those folks were Americans my friends, they lost their jobs because other Americans didn't want to pay the price for quality cars that it costs to make them. Result, even cheaply MIA cars can not compete with imports from low labour cost countries. Where is this all gonna end? One speculation is that the US will no longer be the strongest power, China will. And that scares me.

Chris, why does that scare someone from Oz?

[Tele-Bob]

The Seymour Duncan, (not Duncan Design) p'ups I just removed from my Korean FMT Telecaster were supposed to be a Pearly Gates and '59. I replaced them with what I know to be a domestic '59 and a Custom V. They sound better.

Are the p'ups that came in my Korean FMT Tele made "offshore"?

[photoweborama]

Well, just being back from China... The majority of them are making much more than poverty wage. About $360.00 US a month.. But then again, you can live just fine on a couple of hundred bucks a month over there. That's the difference. Cost of living is very low, and that matches the wage.

But at the rate they are going, it's not going to last forever. It's going to take some time, but eventually it will cost as much to manufacture there as it does here, or anywhere.

Since the end of the "Cultural Revolution", people over there are making up for lost time at a break neck pace. They have a huge hunger for consumer goods, and with that, it requires higher and higher salaries.

I can't say I have all American built stuff, and I can't really say I'm that conscious of it, but if the product has value for what I need it for, I buy it.

[STCrafty]

Then you have people like me, who received a MIM Standard for my 17th birthday nine years ago and really wanted a heavier sound through a cheap amp, so I put wooly humbuckers in it and used it for the alternative music it wasn't designed for.

This year I finally got my Les Paul and my musical tastes have somewhat changed, so I restored the Strat to a 3-single-coil setup. I didn't put the stock pickups back in, rather I replaced them again with an EMG-SA set. Simple enough to install and great for live performance with power on tap and noise-free operation.

As for the Les Paul, I'll probably throw some gentler pickups in it, even though the Classic's ceramic pickups sound fine for most of what I play, I'd still like to tweak some Alnico II cream in there with a set of Duncan APH's I've had sitting around for a while. I'll throw the stockers in an Epiphone Korina V for a little boost for that rocker.

[Constellation80]

We have seen this before what chris is talking about. In England.
After WW2 The brittish where one of the few countrys left in europe that could build quality cars. They where allso the number one ship producing country in the enitre world. They pretty much cornered the small car market. they where 2nd to america in Car production. But through mismanagement, poor products (people would buy it just for the name). And poor marketing. Toyota allmost over took the entire market overnight when they landed. And the english are like Americains in a buisness sence. They can't be bothered to run there own companys they sell them for the right price. As long as they have 10 sport cars in there driveway they don't give a crap about the 30 000 workers now having to seek new employment. In 1960 England from a world power in manufacturing. To NOT manufacturing. Every thing in england has been sold to germans italians even yanks. They don't even build there own trains anymore. And yet they where the standard in trains since the 1700's. They don't build ships. yet (brittainia ruled the waves) So if you guys want other countrys to decide how you work, how much your getting paid etc. Support China! western culture is so busy getting rich quick. they have lost there sence of pride inthemselves.

[Super Champ]

We were talking about pickups right?

[Chris Kinman]

China is just the beginning. There are a lot of other countries that will enter the fray in the coming years. Myanmar (Burma), Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam just to name a few. And once they are caught up there are all the Eastern European block, and then the Islamic states to the north of Afghanastan, lots of them that we never hear about. Plenty of low cost labour there.

I am sympathetic to their plight of poverty but if we in the west dont change our spending habits a lot of us are going to be handing our jobs over to those countries. Australia exported some 10,000 jobs to Indian call centres last year. The family business that does my Gold plating is worried because two competing platers closed last month, the work went to China. The family business that used to mould my pickup covers went bust when one large customer went to manufacturing in China. The list grows ever faster and more every month.

I was in a shop buying something last month and I found a product that was marked "Made in Australia"...I was so surprised and excited that I yelled out loud... "Hey looke here.. I found something made in Australia" ... and the whole shop full of people erupted in laughter. That would have been funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Why shouldn't I be concerned when the fabric of our economy is being ripped apart and gutted. And for what??? lower prices on consumer goods and the greed of corporations who want to cash in on that !!!! It reminds me of a bunch of termites eating away at the house they live in. Fine while the food lasts, but it has to run out one day.... and then what? Unlike tremites we just cant move house. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I see the trend and it's gaining momentum, like a run away freight train it's gonna run over us one day. "The world it is a changing" ..... Bob Dylan.

To answer Kap'n, why am I scared? Just the obvious.... like China with it's terrible abuse of human rights one day might be our lord and master. It's conceivable, if the western economies crumble someone will step into the vacume. Its the law of nature. And it's been said that civilizations run their course and eventually disintergrate/collapse (for whatever reason) and it's also been said we are living on borrowed time. I hope it's not the case, I like my life as it is. I can only imagine what I'd be doing if I wasn't doing this, I know I'll adapt but there is a price to pay for such massive disruption.

Wow what a digression this turned out to be...... interesting food for thought though. BTW only time will tell if there is any substance to all this, maybe I'm wrong....hope so.