songwriters' lounge

[pc]

Thanks for the read and suggestions Jim. :)

The focus of that tune needed to be blurry, though, for reasons not worth going into now. There is a very specific coded message in that song that only one person can get, but only if they read between the lines. "Look through the drops to see the truth."

It's just what was up at that time in my life. ;)

[Annie D.]

Bedroom eyes, big brown eyes, voodoo eyes, smiling eyes (let me think about it, thanks)

[Annie D.]

Another shmaltzy chick love song, to a driving beat and soaring lead: sounds better than it reads. "mi, mi, mi"

Here I go, tumbling into your love
It pulls like gravity
The tides on the sea
It's just a mystery
You've got a hold on me

Here we go, tumbling, tumbling, tumbling
Into love

Here I am, stumbling into your love
Can I take the chance
Attempt the dance
Let you take my hand
Waltz me round the floor

Here I go, tumbling, tumbling, tumbling
Into your love

Are you tumbling, tumbling, tumbling
Into my love

[NeoFauve]

I like that, Annie.
I can hear Lucinda or Emmylou, with keranglin' guitar chunking along behind a tumbling beat, sort of a "Crying, Waiting, Hoping" (Buddy H) type structure.
Nice.

[pc]

Pro stuff for sure Annie. Makes me want to reach for a big ole acoustic and lay down some chunga-chunga for you. Or grab my Tele and play between the lines, if youse know what I mean. :)

[Annie D.]

Thanks, amigos, you got the musical jist just fine. Maybe i'll post some dark stuff, someday soon.

The ones posted by others are so good; images so sharp; i'm a little hesitant.

like:

"Be sure and hit that black ice on the sharp curve outta town
Pedal to the medal, liquored-up and homeward bound..."

I'm such a sweet thing.

[The Nazz Are Blue]

I tried to write lyrics just now. Nothing happened. I guess I need some sort of idea. I'm workin' on it....

[frank thomson]

NAZZ, et al....i'm tellin you....get a micro-recorder....keep it w/ you....just today, i put down 2 killer ideas, and 1 almost complete song dvlmt idea....


GET ONE.

for me, it's like those simple things that people say, but they sometimes miss the grander meaning.....hmmmmm.....like, TGIFriday is often shouted by young, and younger, people, but did you ever think how the older generation would view this concept/statement?....hell, to them, it's TGIMonday, or TGITuesday, etc....they're just happy to be above ground!

see what I'm sayin? everyting is relative...<<see, there's a song!

[mgade]

I "usually" writes stuff on the train without regard for any melody or anything musical at all. Then when a melody or chord progression or whatever hits "tape", I just sings those parts of the lyrics that fits on the melody and skipd the rest :-)

Do you fellas'n'gals do otherwise? Like working out a complete tune sans words and then write words that fits exactly??

[frank thomson]

re; write w/o a melody...>>>i do that too....prob even more now that i am writing country

and, even tho musicians don't wanna hear this, 99.9999% of the time, the music is the least-most-important-thing in the country songwriting process. [remember, there's exceptions to every rule!]

[Annie D.]

RESISTANCE

The thirty-thousand dollar sweet-sixteen show
Seems obscence to me, but what do I know
People round the world so desperate
Getting really hard to keep their heads up

While some adore wallowing in excess
Let's slip out the back screen door and jump the express
Maybe they won't catch us, maybe turn their head
But I'll bet we'll still feel bad in the morning light

Throw a billion dollars at the stars
Space cowboy flying up to Mars
Don't give a damn about the dying man
Get your movie deal and hit the bars

Eighteen billion dollars at the bird flu
While our neighbors struggle on, well, who knew
They don't want our pity, and buddy they don't want to die
They just want to be pain free, 'fore the angels fly

(welp it's a rough draft, Wut Kan Aysay)

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[Annie D.]

Jesse's got the pickup truck
And Jesse's sposed to pick her up
But Jesse hasn't yet showed up
Cause Jesse's gone away

She stands outside Del's Cafe
Refusing rides that go her way
Cause Jesse said he'd come today
But Jesse's gone away

Everybody tried to warn her
Still she stands there on the corner
Nothing but the moon to warm her
Cause Jesse's gone away

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[frank thomson]

Jesse's got the pickup truck
And Jesse's sposed to pick her up
But Jesse hasn't yet showed up
Cause Jesse's gone away

She stands outside Del's Cafe
Refusing rides that go her way
Cause Jesse said he'd come today
But Jesse's gone away

Everybody tried to warn her
Still she stands there on the corner
Nothing but the moon to warm her
Cause Jesse's gone away

HOT!^^^

We might have to make that into a country song. ;)
==================================
==========================

[Annie D.]

In vino es nonsensicus

[moonpie]

Nice Annie. I particularly like Jesse's Gone Away:yay

[Offshore Angler]

I'm an old-schooler. Why? Because it works. I look at a song structurally, and there isn't a hook, it goes in the trash. The hook can be lyrical or musical, but it MUST be there.

Themes - MUST be universal an easily identifiable to the listener. 99.9% of originals I hear done by amateurs are so weirdly internalized I have no idea that the singer's message is. Good word-smithing and meter is nice, but not required. Listen to many pop songs and they use poor language skills, nobody cares.

Another song-killer is the use of "I", as in "I am a rock". Nobody cares about you. People want to apply the song to themselves. The only times to use "I" are when you are telling a story as in "I was driving with my daughter on the way down to Monroe" (Jule); or when the "I" is part of the universal theme which the listener can substitute themselves for as in "I can't get no satisfaction"

Good songs tell a story. Don't focus on the images for their sake. That's a common blunder. Use the images to tell the story.

Metaphors only work if the listener knows what you're describing!

What I look for in a song is when I've heard it, was it a collection of words or was it somebody telling me something? Is the message or story clearly identifiable?

[Mikey]

Chuck Berry was asked once, a long time ago, where he got his inspiration for songs. His reply was basically...
Who's buying the records? Right, Kids! Kids like to hear about their lives and the lives of those around them. So I write songs about kids. School dances, first loves and love lives, and lost loves, and cars and jeans and such. I sell a lot of records if I get it right and don't sell any if I don't. Leave the adults with Lawrence Welk and them folk.


BTW the way, I just can't get this outta my head!
Just came in from Texas baaaaaby,
You didn't even know I was around!

[Jesse S.]

I'm an old-schooler. Why? Because it works. I look at a song structurally, and there isn't a hook, it goes in the trash. The hook can be lyrical or musical, but it MUST be there.

In general, I agree with you. The "hook" is at the heart of pop music (I would say that's almost the definition of pop). But, I gotta take issue at the idea that this is an objective rule...

Another song-killer is the use of "I", as in "I am a rock". Nobody cares about you.

That song did hit #3 in the US charts in 1966, though... And there are LOTS of first-person hits. I think the average pop listener very much does care about "you".

Good songs tell a story. Don't focus on the images for their sake. That's a common blunder. Use the images to tell the story.

Metaphors only work if the listener knows what you're describing!

The narrative song (as perfected by Chuck Berry, for instance) is a great pop style, but I think there have been plenty of hits that stood on the virtue of the music and the lyrical imagery alone.

Strawberry Fields Forever (UK #2): "No one I think is in my tree; I mean it must be high or low." Huh??? I guess it comes back to the hook - "Let me take you dowwwwwwn..."

Maybe things were different in the '60s, but I can think of a lot of hits from back then with dense, cryptic lyrics. Hell, Mick Jagger has made a career out of marble-mouthed mumbled inscrutable lyrics. (But I think that's where the musical pop-hook comes in again.)

I think what I have discovered in writing this reply is that for myself, the musical hook is more important than the lyrics. (Which is funny because when I think of "writing a song" I usually think about writing the lyrics.)

"It doesn't matter what I say
So long as I sing with inflection
That makes you feel that I'll convey
Some inner truth of vast reflection
But I've said nothing so far
And I can keep it up as long as it takes
And it don't matter who you are
If I'm doing my job, it's your resolve that breaks
Because the hook brings you back."

"The Hook", Blues Traveler (which ironically hit #13 in the US charts)

[Jesse S.]

Jesse's got the pickup truck
And Jesse's sposed to pick her up
But Jesse hasn't yet showed up
Cause Jesse's gone away

Annie, I like all your songs (really gutsy-feeling), but just for the record:

I have never owned a pickup truck.
I will generally attempt to call if I am stuck in traffic or otherwise detained from picking someone up.

Cheers! ;)

[Gravity Jim]

No fair, OA! You don't get to lecture on theory without posting some lyrics!!

[cooltone]

Keith Richards has described their songwriting style as "vowel movements"

[Annie D.]

I'd like to apologize for the vowel movements in here last night. Someone came up and made me mad so I got drunk ('cause ayma dumbass once in a while) and posted.

Never drink and post. Just go into Word and don't save it.

I actually wrote Jesse many years ago when I was going to be the female Willie Nelson and make a fortune. Wrote it for Crystal Gayle who was the hot country singer at the time.

[Gravity Jim]

Heck fire, you don't need Crystal Gayle for that lyric, Annie... there are plenty of young redneck chicks on the air now that would tear that tune up.

Hey! Why did you take them down? There as no call for that... you know you are among friends. No lie, you've got a poet's ear, dear. Rhyming "warn 'er" and "corner?" "Nothing but the moon to warm her?" Dang, girl! That passes the Chill Test over here at Gravity World HQ.

I need to dig around and find that lyric you inspired me to write back when we were both loopy outsiders at T.O.P. :) Entitled "When The Moon Goes Out." I still really like that thing, but there are a couple of key words that I can't access in memory... gotta go find the hard drive, so to speak. I'll post it when I find it....

[Annie D.]

Maybe I'll just stick to Moon Songs.

"When my baby's out of town and there's no-one else around
You know the moon goes out...sumpin' sumpin' sumpin'..."

"In his top hat and tails...sumpin, sumpin, sumpin'..."

[mkg]

Count me as one who digs Jesse's Gone Away...that's some fine writin'!

Here's an old one to chew on, imagine some Ry Cooderish/semi-ragtime music behind it:

Midnight Rural Blues

Take me back home, I could use the rest
Put my watch on the dresser and unbutton my vest
Turn the radio on to some midnight rural blues

Hand me my glass and I will take a sip
A little bourbon and water just to loosen my lip
We'll spend the rest of the night conversing and exchanging views

Don't burden my brow with trouble and doubt
Those are worries I can live without
Just turn down the lamp and softly call my name

It's easy to live in the world today
Just forget about makin' it anyway
Put the bad times away and the good times will remain

Take me back home, I could use the rest
Put my watch on the dresser and unbutton my vest
Turn the radio on to some midnight rural blues

copyright Mark Gordon BMI 1985 blah blah blah

[Annie D.]

Put my watch on the dresser and unbutton my vest

I digz that line. The tune reminds me of the state of mind in Goose Creek's "Right Track" one of the alltime best "tired and goin' home" tunes.

See Jim dig through his pile of tunes trying to find his "Moon Goes Out" tune.

[mkg]

Thanks, Annie. The older I get, the more I get that "tired and goin' home" feeling.
Guess that's the way it's supposed to be, although I ain't quite ready to be put out to pasture just yet. I sure do enjoy slowin' down and enjoying the view a little bit more, though.

[chuckocaster]

:yay

i dig the lyrics, very tasty.

[Annie D.]

"I tried and I failed, now I'm tired & weary..."

Dear Chucko Bunny; why you so down on yerselp?

[mkg]

Chucko, thanks for the thumbs up, buddy.

[music-n-motorcycle]

Here is a song that has been very well recieved by crowds and there is really nothing to it. it is in a twelve bar progression and sound like traditional rock n roll.

SWEET WADDLE BOP

SOME MEN SAY THEY WANT A SKINNY LASS
BUT GIVE ME A WOMAN WITH A BIG ROUND “*”(that would be a rimshot on the snare)

WE’LL DO THE SWEET WADDLE BOP
WE’LL DO THE SWEET WADDLE BOP

WE’LL PUT ON OUR DANCIN’ CLOTHES
AND ROLL AROUND ON THE FLOOR
AND DO THE SWEET WADDLE BOP


SATURDAY NIGHT AROUND ELEVEN O’CLOCK
SHE SAY’S LET’S KEEP ROLLIN’ AND I SAY DON’T STOP

WE’LL DO THE SWEET WADDLE BOP
WE’LL DO THE SWEET WADDLE BOP

WE’LL PUT ON OUR DANCIN’ CLOTHES
AND ROLL AROUND ON THE FLOOR
AND DO THE SWEET WADDLE BOP

SWEET WADDLE BOP

SWEET WADDLE BOP

SWEET WADDLE BOP

SWEET WADDLE BOP

SWEET WADDLE BOP

SWEET WADDLE BOP

[Rickenjangle]

OSA, I think that "I" in songwriting is just fine. Sometimes the song needs to be told from a first-person perspective. I do agree that the themes need to be universal...a good example of a universal 1st person narrative that succeeds is "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" by U2.

I believe that more than anything else, it is the hook - whether it's vocal or instrumental - that really "makes" a song.