Software-Free stuff

[The Nazz Are Blue]

Not sure where this belongs but...

I've been jonesin' to get some recording software lately. My parents have offered to buy me some for christmas, but they don't know about this "freeware" that I've heard you folks talk about. So is it worth the money to buy the real software, or should I just get some of the free downloads that you guys have linked to in other threads? If you think I should get some real-deal stuff, could you recommend something?I'm not sure exactly what I need but I've been reading up about stuff and some of it has got my head spinning. Could you tell me what the real-deal stuff does that the freeware can't?

Thanks. Sorry if it's a kind of vague question

[clayville]

I used free and low-grade recording software for about a year and a half to get into the Jam Zones here and across the hall -- Kristal, various VST plug-ins, and some freebie software that came with a Digitech multi fx pedal I bought (sort of a Cakewalk Extra Lite thing). It helped me learn the ropes of what can be a very complex thing even at an amateaur level like this outputting to mp3s.

But... then I bought an Mbox, which comes with ProTools LE. Night and day in terms of the quality of the results and the capability of the software. Not to mention the add-ons that come bundled with it (like Amplitude LE, and several others that I'm still getting the hang of). Wish I'd started there, actually.

I think its a good idea to assess your needs and ambitions first, but for around $400 bucks or so, its tough to beat the combination. Decent preamps, killer software. The learning curve can be steep, but there's lots of help out there in books and online resources, and again: the capability is astounding.

My two cents....

[JTV]

Kind of depends upon what your aiming to do.

If it's to join in the Jam Zone, or record relatively simple jams/demos/noodles etc, whilst at the same time cutting your teeth with digital recording - then I'd definitely recommend something like Audacity or Krystal freeware.
I use a POD 2 into the line in on my soundcard and record with Audacity for quick and easy. Although it does require an additional decoder for mp3 conversion - but it's also a free download, and very simple to install.

I have Cakewalk (Guitar Studio, I think) but I don't use it at the moment because I haven't found the time to dedicate to learning what it can do and how to do it!

Some of the commercial packages are very complex to get to grips with, especially if you have no previous experience of this sort of software.

IMHO, if you want to spend some cash (of ideas for presents :-) look at a small mixer and something like a Pod or J-Station. You'll need some sort of DI/Preamp/Gain control regardless of what software you use.

[photoweborama]

I just started using N-Track again. There are so many good free VST plugins. I just had to.

I use Guitar Track Pro 2 also and I like it a lot, but it can't take VST plugins.

You can put out good quality stuff with both.

I found the interface on Krystal to be too difficult, and Audacity to be a bit difficult to figure out.

Guitar Tracks Pro is about the easiest to use with a quick learning curve. Somewhat limited, but really easy to use.

[thetallcoolone]

I've had the chance to pots around with various commercial software and I find most to have a pretty tough learning curve.
The only exception I found is Tracktion from Mackie.
I got a free version (v1.6) they offered last year before releasing v2.0
It's a less featured version than 2.0 but good enough for me in the JamZone.

So that's the one I would recommend if you were to spend money on software, mainly for its speedy learning curve.

But there are enough good free recording soft out there that if you're not planning on doing "serious" recording, I'd go with JTV's suggestion and get some nice hardware to interface your guitar to your computer.
Get used to the recording part with the free stuff and then, later on, you'll know better what to look for in a commercial soft.

Meanwhile, your hardware will always be there to help you get a great sound right from the start.

My :2c

[The Nazz Are Blue]

Alright thanks guys. I just got Kristal and am figuring it out pretty smoothly.

And now it's stupid question time!
My sound card has small inputs, like headphone style. Is this alright, or do I need a new one?

(I don't know anything about those input-thing sizes so I hope "headphone style" was descriptive enough

[tonemonkey]

It works fine for me with a 1/8 inch jack on the soundcard. You may well want to get some plugins from kjaerhus audio in order to liven up the sound a little.

[JTV]

Your sound card should have a "line in" input socket - that's the one to use.

Can't tell you which one it is, and some sound cards have dual use sockets, so it's a case of consulting your manual (or trial and error!). But they are the small headphone style 1/8 inch jack sockets.

I have a 1/4 jack to 1/8 jack converter thingy (stereo) that I use when I'm recording from the Pod.

Then you need to find your volume control - if it's a windows machine it'll be >> programs >>accessories>>entertainment>>volume control. Just to check the "Line in" input level.

Now, you will find that pluggin your guitar straight into this socket will not produce anything very useful. You'll need a multi effects pedal/pod/mixer or something to boost the signal and give you a useable tone (other than ultra clean). I used to use the line out on my vox pathfinder (didn't sound great, but it was usable). Or you could record ultra clean and play with effects afterwards.

Once you know that you have you guitar input working (and you can hear it through you computer's speakers/headphones) you should be able to record with Krystal.

[fezz parka]

The soundcard uses stereo 1/8" mini phone plugs. Get a cheap mixer like a $39.00 Behringer, a couple of RCA to stereo 1/8" mini phone plug and Krystal Audio engine multitrack software (it's freeware) and you're good to go...

A stereo receiver/amp works well as an interface between the computer and the mixer. Use the tape in and out for the sound card, and use another aux input for the mixer. It's the best way to monitor without having to worry about latency from the sound card. You'll hear your input signal right off the aux input, and your backing tracks off the soundcard at the same time. So if your current card will do 16 bit 44.1khz (which it will), you are good to go. IMO your best investment for starting out is a cheap mixer and a freeware recording program.:yay

Here’s how to hook it up:

1. Guitar cable/modeler or mic----->mixer.

2. Mixer-------> aux input on receiver/amp.

3. Soundcard line in/out -------> tape monitor in/out on receiver.
This is the same place you would put a cassette machine to record from another input on the receiver. Except that "tape" machine is now a computer.;)

On receiver depress tape monitor button.

On receiver also select aux. input.

Tada!

[The Nazz Are Blue]

Thanks for the info everyone! JTV mentioned a multi effects pedal. Would that work? I have one around in my basement, not being used. If it does, then all I have left to do is get my guitar signal into my computer, right?

you folks are a big help :yay

[fezz parka]

The multi-effects pedal just might work...:yay

[The Nazz Are Blue]

:lol yay indeed

[fezz parka]

I'm a dumbass, yay!:yay

[thetallcoolone]

Well, to tell you about my setup: guitar -> Digitech RP50 multi-effect pedal -> soundcard Line In.

I don't use the effects of the pedal, I use it only as an interface. (I keep it in the bypass mode)
But you can use the effects. I started out using them.
The main trick is to set the output of the pedal so it doesn't distort the input of the sound card. (if your pedal allows it)

I use a 1/4 to 1/8 adaptor to plug from the pedal into the soundcard.

The output of the soundcard goes into a little Yamaha receiver. It gives a better sound than the cheapo little speakers that normally comes with a PC.

My PC is a Celeron 2.4Ghz with 1Gb RAM and I use ASIO drivers for my SoundBlaster Live soundcard so I have very little latency (less than 10ms) so I can record and playback in real time.

Your end result will vary depending on the power of your PC.
If you want to use VST plugins, you better have a powerful PC. They are quite demanding on a system if you use more than one at a time.

Which leads me to ask a question to Fezz:
Will I acheive better results using something like the Behringer mixer or is it the same as my current setup?
My understanding is it should be basically the same. It's just another way to interface with the soundcard. And since the AD/DA is happening on the card, there would be no real difference.

Am I right thinking this?
Does the mixer provide a better impedance matching with the input of the card?

[JTV]

I'd say yes TC1.
The output of the RP50 will be optimised for inputting into an amp. The mixer would offer a better impedance match. But saying that, if you are careful about the input level to your soundcard (as you are) you'll probably get pretty near the mark.
I use a Pod straight into the soundcard - the manual recommends going via a mixer or DI box for impedance matching. You do get pretty good results without.

Interesting stuff about the ASIO drivers, I think I'll investigate that - I'm having some problems with latency. I'm using Audcity and the track timing isn't great when overdubbing.
Actually, I only really noticed it when I was jamming over the Funk track (jamzone) and trying to lay down a rhythm part - didn't really notice it when I was playing lead :rofl :rofl

[thetallcoolone]

You're probably right JTV.
My guess is in a more serious setup (wanting to do a real demo or laying down some tracks for a real recording project) it would probably make a difference. But then again, one wouldn't use a Soundblaster card. A more musical card would need to be used.

But for Jamzone work, thru a Soundblaster, I doubt we would hear the differrence. As you said, as long as the settings are within the limitations of the setup.

As for ASIO, if you're using a Soundblaster card (AWE64 and up) check out the KxProject drivers at http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/index.php?skip=1
It can be quite complicated to get the hang of it but once you get it, you can setup your soundcard in different ways and save different configs for different applications. It's real cool and you'll learn quite a bit about the internal working of these cards.

Or you can check out the ASIO For All site: http://www.asio4all.com/
From what I've read, it can be setup for most soundcards out there.

Have fun. ;)

[fezz parka]

Does the mixer provide a better impedance matching with the input of the card?

Yes.

[thetallcoolone]

Yes.

OK!
But will I hear a real sound difference in my lo-fi setup?
Is it really worth sqeezing out some cash for it or is my setup good enough for my JamZone use and wait 'till I can afford better gears?
(like a better soundcard)

[JTV]

I'm thinking about it. I like the look of the Soundcraft Notepad.

The Nad 3210 amp I use for monitoring, is on the blink. The switches are getting pretty unreliable and noisy. Sounds great when you poke the right switch, in the right way.....

If I use the mixer for monitoring I'll be able to listen to the recording via the mixer rather than the Nad. Well.....on headphones at least.
Plus, it'll give me more control over the mix. Sliders on a PC screen are ok, but a set of knobs are easier to tweek.
And I'll be able to patch my effects through the mixers fx loop...I'm really likeing this idea.... :drl

Then I'll upgrade the Nad

[fezz parka]

OK!
But will I hear a real sound difference in my lo-fi setup?

Yes.:yay

OK!
Is it really worth squeezing out some cash for it or is my setup good enough for my JamZone use and wait 'till I can afford better gears?

It's probably good enough, but a Behringer mixer is like 39 bucks USD.

...wait 'till I can afford better gears?
(like a better soundcard)

Your soundcard is fine for what you are doing. I've put stuff in TV shows that were done on my old SB live card. IMO, your money would be better spent on a mixer at this time...

[thetallcoolone]

Thanks Fezz!
I'll look into that Behringer mixer and see what kind of money they ask for it up here.