A bass for a guitar player?

[Phil M]

I'm working on a songwriting/recording project with a vocalist. We have been cranking through the writing process by finding serviceable canned drum files that fit the music and laying a couple of tracks of guitars and vocals.

Now, I'm no bassist, but I know my way around the fretboard well enough to lay down some bass lines to thicken up our demos. I've been using the neck pickup on a strat and rolling off the tone to approximate a bass tone. It's not terrible, but I think a real bass would be so much better.

I use amps to record guitars, but I think for bass we'll just go direct. For recording purposes, would a Mexican Jazz or P bass get the job done? Could you gig with those? Would a baritone guitar be better for this purpose?

I played with the same bassist for years, but we don't play together anymore. I have a new respect for his talents.

[Mikey]

Yeah, either one of the MIMs will do just fine as will anything on the Rondo music site for less money. Good sounds and gigable.

[Gravity Jim]

I'd go for an MIM Fender in a second. Don't make the mistake I made of assuming that you want a Jazz because it's got a skinnier neck and is "easier" for a guitar player. You want a P-bass. Trust me on this.

[Phil M]

I tend to go for the clubby necks on my guitars. Thanks for this advice because I wasn't sure what the differences were between the Jazz and Precision.

[Don]

I bought an MIM Jazz Bass several years ago when I decided that I needed to record some bass lines.
It's been fantastic. I picked the best one that I could find at the local stores.

The toughest part was choosing between a Jazz Bass and a Precision Bass.

I put TI flats and a push/pull pot for series/parallel switch to get some of the punch that the Jazz lacks compared to a Precision.

I'm sure I could've gotten a better price on an off brand, but I wanted a Fender Bass.

[clayville]

Based (no pun intended) on other threads, I've been halfway thinking about picking up a cheap short-scale for the same purpose: laying down a little low-end on home recordings. As a guitarist with fairly shortish fingers, full size scale seems a needless impediment to what I want to achieve. I know it won't instantly give me bass-playing cred, but... Ya reckon I'm thinking wrong here?

[Phil M]

Whoa, Mikey, I saw your other thread about the Rondo bass. What is the deal there. Is this in any way comparable to the MIM Fender basses? It doesn't seem like it could be at $159, but I know it could just be the name ...

[Gravity Jim]

Don's right, of course, regardless of my flip tone above. The pickup configurations are the biggest different between a Jazz and a Precision, and it's simply a matter of taste. I think that a Precisaion fits more comfortable (i.e., it's the sound people expect to hear) in a wider range of pop styles, so it works best for me.

clayville, I've found that playing a full scale bass gave me a surer sense of "being" a Bass Player. It hepls me think in terms of bass line and rhythm, and the growl of the open strings is worth any short-term difficulty. I honestly wouldn't want to play an instrument that felt more like a guitar.

Is a Rondo as good as a Fender? I never played a Rondo/SX/Agile, so I don't know. But I will say this: if I had a sawbuck for every cheap guitar that got raves on-line that was a huge disappointment when I finally played one, I'd go buy a Taylor acoustic with the cash.

[Rickenjangle]

I'd go with the MIM. Try both a Jazz and a Precision, to see which you prefer.

I have one of each, and I love them both...but my Precision is one of the Deluxe ones that has active electronics, the thinner Jazz neck, and the P/J pickup combination, so I can cover a ton of ground.

The Precision balances much, much, much better on a guitar stand. The Jazz likes to slide off because its heel is angled.

[Mikey]

Well Phil,
All i can say is that I've played a number of basses, both branded and not-so-branded and most did a pretty good job. i always thought that if it wasn't a Fender or a Rickenbacker, it wasn't a bass. Then I saw a guy playing a Rogue 5 string. He played alternate week at church. The other guy played a 72 Fender P-bass (fretless) and I couldn't tell the difference tone-wise. The Fender player had a lot more taste in his playing, but the sound worked with either. That got me into checking out the "cheaper" lines. Given the cash, I'd have a MIM bass any day, but I needed a bass without much money and ended up getting one of the SX vintage basses with the P/J pickup sets. Played easily, sounded great, and I was able to dial it in for what I wanted it to do. A kid a church needed one so I sold it to him. Simple as that. Now, I'm in the market for one again. If I can hold off a bit longer, I'll try to get a MIM with the P/J pickups. If I find I need one before I get that kind of money I'll pick up the SX from Rondo for 159.
Frankly, it'll do the job, and I wouldn't be afraid to gig it.

Of course, I'm a freakin' drummer so what do I know?

[moonpie]

Clay,
a fellow could do a lot worse than buying a Music Master bass from the 70s.
They've depreciated all they're going to unless you really screw it up, and the scale is more user friendly to us short fingered types.

[Phil M]

Of course, I'm a freakin' drummer so what do I know?

Exactly! ;)

I'm just kidding, Mikey, and I appreciate all the helpful comments.

I'm such a freak about guitars and amps, but when it comes to this bass, I just want it to be solid and useful. Obviously, I'd rather spend $159 than the price of a MIM Fender, but I want to make sure that it's something that will get the job done. I'd like to determine if the SX and the MIM Fenders are essentially the same and you're paying for a name, or is the Fender a superior instrument and worthy of a few hundred more dollars.

That vintage green SX on the Rondo site looks pretty killer, but I think all those metal pieces would get in the way.

[Mikey]

Asa matter of fact, the last SX I had was just like that green (or SB one just below it) but without the bridge and pick-up covers. I really liked it. Why not give them a call and talk to them. They're really nice people and helpful.
Also, let's see if we can get Frank in on this. He's using one now I beleive.
Frank?

[seagate]

That vintage green SX on the Rondo site looks pretty killer, but I think all those metal pieces would get in the way.

Throwing in my :2c, I bought a Cort GB34A some years ago and couldn't be happier with it. Bass playing friends don't even bother bringing their own when they come over for a jam...

Rolling your own basslines is the only way to go. Beats playing bass on the keyboard any time.

[FrankJohnson]

Asa matter of fact, the last SX I had was just like that green (or SB one just below it) but without the bridge and pick-up covers. I really liked it. Why not give them a call and talk to them. They're really nice people and helpful.
Also, let's see if we can get Frank in on this. He's using one now I beleive.
Frank?

Yep - Actually two of them. I have a 75 J copy in Sunburst.....It didn't really need a pickup upgrade, but I installed a set of MIM Jazz pups from R Hayes and rewired with CTX pots.....it is a player with a pronounce med V neck. Black Block inlays on Maple fretboard and ash body.......Nice player! I installed a BAII tailpiece.

The other is Mikeys old bass's cousin in antique white (ok....creme) re-pup'd with Lace Sensor P and J From a Fender Hot Rod P bass (80's reissue of a 62 I was told) and the same wiring kit. VERY different neck, More P like and with a nicely tinted neck. I use Nylon Wound Rounds (Fender 9120's ) on it and it has great tone and feel.

I have $200 into each bass including parts and shipping.

I recently bought Marcondos Jazz Deluxe. What a great bass! All three are specifically different and I can't make myself get rid of any of the three. As far as tone sahping - hands down it is the Deluxe Marco-Jazz....... But for grab and go playability - any of the three are a first rate go!

If you want 5 or 6 strings, they have models I have not seen first hand, but I have no reason to believe they would be any less than the ones I have had in hand.

I really like the neck on both and have no issue playing them in front of snobby-ass's that turn their nose up at "none-name" basses.

www.rondomusic.net

http://www.rondomusic.net/bassguitars4.html

Eamil Kurt - Tell him Ken in Delaware Sent you......

[FrankJohnson]

Exactly! ;)

I'm just kidding, Mikey, and I appreciate all the helpful comments.

I'm such a freak about guitars and amps, but when it comes to this bass, I just want it to be solid and useful. Obviously, I'd rather spend $159 than the price of a MIM Fender, but I want to make sure that it's something that will get the job done. I'd like to determine if the SX and the MIM Fenders are essentially the same and you're paying for a name, or is the Fender a superior instrument and worthy of a few hundred more dollars.

That vintage green SX on the Rondo site looks pretty killer, but I think all those metal pieces would get in the way.

I thought I would like the Bridge and neck pup covers.....but took them off and pawned them off on an unsuspecting friend! ACtually I couldn't get used to tehm, but it wasn't a problem to take em off.....

(BTW - the P Neck cover won't work on a J Neck pup.....huh Mikey?)

I say go for it........I like that one too and LOVE The RW fretboard on mine! You have 30 day sif you don't modify it and you will only be responsible for the shipping - pretty cheap rental for 30 days to test drive an inexpensive addition to the family.

Operators are standing by - what are you waiting for?

[doc540]

1. No cheap bass guitar is going to sound as good as a real bass guitar.

2. No guitar player is going to play as good as a real bass player.

But don't let that stop you from laying down decent bass lines with a cheap guitar. It'll all turn out just fine and hardly anyone will notice.

If they do, just lay some Chuck Norris on their azz.

[EJG]

Don't ignore the Squire P-basses either. I picked a used one up for $60 a while back. One of my sons has been playing it and loves it. He recently jammed with my other son's MIM J-bass and didn't like it at all. I think it was just the neck difference that threw him though.

[Phil M]

I thought I would like the Bridge and neck pup covers.....but took them off and pawned them off on an unsuspecting friend! ACtually I couldn't get used to tehm, but it wasn't a problem to take em off.....

(BTW - the P Neck cover won't work on a J Neck pup.....huh Mikey?)

I say go for it........I like that one too and LOVE The RW fretboard on mine! You have 30 day sif you don't modify it and you will only be responsible for the shipping - pretty cheap rental for 30 days to test drive an inexpensive addition to the family.

Operators are standing by - what are you waiting for?

So you're a bassist and the SX works well for you?

[Phil M]

2. No guitar player is going to play as good as a real bass player.

Nope. And when I do play bass, I even use a pick!

But who knows, in time, I might become a bassist. There are just too many goddamn guitarists! he he he

[frank thomson]

i got me one of those fender *mini's*(?)....a few years age, F made a 3/4 size guiitar/strat and p-bass, mim...came in red and black.....great little bass!

i have a red bass

==================================


GRAVITY JIM SAID, "I think that a Precisaion fits more comfortable (i.e., it's the sound people expect to hear) in a wider range of pop styles, so it works best for me."

fwiw, I cannot discern a bass[sound/mfg/what pups] on 99.9% music i have ever heard. if you can, i think that is utterly amazing!

[Gravity Jim]

Well, let me clarify: The sounds that I record with my Precision fit the widest range of pop styles with the least amount of tweaking. That is, I'm not saying that I can HEAR the sound of a Precision on all those records, because, as you point out, that would be ridiculous... I'm saying I can MAKE the sounds on those records (or get closer faster) more easily with a P-bass pickup than I ever could when I was playing Jazz-style basses. I was speaking from the viewpoint of a producer rather than a consumer of music.

[Wilko]

G Jim speaks the truth.

A jazz bass may be able to make a lot of neat sounds, but that doesn't mean a guitarist who just wants to lay down some demo tracks wants to futz around trying to get good sounds out of it.

Besides the inevitable overplaying that a guitarist will do, the TONE is his second sin. Guitarists usually try to add all kinds of Stanley Clarke Alembic type HiFi BS to their tone.

P-Bass is just plug it in and play the damn thing-- with FLAT WOUND STRINGS-- and be done with it. The difference between it and a tone impeded guitar is night and day.

Get a used Squire P-Bass for about 150 and you're well on your way to more than getting the job done.

[FrankJohnson]

I'm not actually a bass player, but I play one on TV......

Actually, I started playing anything about 1999 and mostly taught myself some basic guitar and then after playing at home for about 3 years started reading and worked up the nerve to play with some friends.....and found out most of what I was doing was wrong (A lot of..."Why do you do it that way?" type of quesitons)

anyway a little over a year ago, I decided to play with some friends more seriously and didn't have much budget to buy usale instruments, so I bought cheap ones, improved on some of them (while destroying others) and learned a little bit about upgrading.......traded up and around and have a couple of cheap keepers that I upgraded and a few nice pieces with recognizable names.

These basses are amoung the better made less expensive ones I ran across. I actully play much nbetter now than in the beginning (a good thing) and have learned enough with each project that I could do some things and most of my own setups comfortably....

I agree with Doc, these aren't high end collectibles, but are absolutely worthy players that put you on the playing field in a competitive mode. UPgrades get you closer and at some point, if you compare them to better instruments, its close. Now when you talk about vintage, custom or anything beyond typical factory grade - I would never say my $119 against someones Bongo, original 62 P or anything like that.

Byt for what you asked about, I believe you will find your expectiations exceeded in the bang to buck competition.

If you want to be sure your getting a standard instrument with a logo name you can hold accountable - absolutely go with someone you know. If your willing to roll the dive and maybe be more than satisified at a lesser cost and maybe do some quality upgrades and have some fun with it without the high dollar risk - .......welll.....you see where I'm going.

BTW - a Used Peavey T-40 will buy you lots of GREAT sound. It a beast (weight wise) but a great instrument.

Why not take a drive to Union NJ to see what they have - maybe do some cherry picking? If you don't like em in person, you'll know for sure.

[FrankJohnson]

G Jim speaks the truth.

A jazz bass may be able to make a lot of neat sounds, but that doesn't mean a guitarist who just wants to lay down some demo tracks wants to futz around trying to get good sounds out of it.

Besides the inevitable overplaying that a guitarist will do, the TONE is his second sin. Guitarists usually try to add all kinds of Stanley Clarke Alembic type HiFi BS to their tone.

P-Bass is just plug it in and play the damn thing-- with FLAT WOUND STRINGS-- and be done with it. The difference between it and a tone impeded guitar is night and day.

Get a used Squire P-Bass for about 150 and you're well on your way to more than getting the job done.

Oh yeah.....

What Jim and Wilko said too......

It is oh so true!

[Don]

A jazz bass may be able to make a lot of neat sounds, but that doesn't mean a guitarist who just wants to lay down some demo tracks wants to futz around trying to get good sounds out of it.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

It did take a bit to dial in my Jazz Bass.

I pretty much keep the bridge pickup's volume set enough below the neck pickup's volume (about 2 digets on the knob if the knob had digets) so that it doesn't have that trademark Jazz Bass tone. I keep the tone down to about 8 (again, if it had numbers on the knob).
I pull out on the push/pull pot series/parallel switch if I wan't more thump.

I've also got TI Flats and a big chunk 'o foam between the strings and the body between the bridge pickup and the bridge. I don't really want any tone at all, just the notes ma'am.

BTW, in recordings, I wouldn't recognize a P Bass. I do recognize a J Bass when I hear it though.

[Folk_guy]

I bought an Ibanez that I really like, has a thinner jazz bass style neck, active EQ, a Jazz bass style pick up at the bridge, and P bass style pick up at the neck. I had to try several in the store before I found one that was set up well enough to play, but I blame the shop for that. They said they just got them in and hadn't gotten to doing the set up yet. Best of all it only cost me $210.00. For the little bit of bass I play in church and some occasional messing around for home recording purposes it's great.

[Mesotech]

I picked up a Squire Affinity P bass pack just before Christmas, expressly for the purpose of home recording (Jam Zone). Since it was a bass pack, I didn't even play it before purchasing, I just selected the color and grabbed the box. It needed a neck reset once I got it home, as the action was pretty horrible past the 7th fret. That took all of about 10 minutes to do (I simply added a small piece of 100 grit sandpaper about 1/2" x1/4").

After replacing the neck and tuning back up, I adjusted the intonation, and was good to go. For what I want it for, it's perfect. Inexpensive and playable. My 15yr old son fell in love with it, so he plays it more than I do, but it's where I can grab it when I need to. The little 15 W Rumble amp that came with it isn't too bad either, for a small practice amp. Has CD in and headphones out. The combo pack was about half the price of a MIM P bass, due to the Christmas sales.

[Plugger]

I'm a guitarist that has a bass for recording etc., and all I can suggest is the same old thing: Play before you buy. Buy the one that you get on with. As an experienced guitarist/newbie bassist you might find the one preferred by an experienced bassist without much guitar expertise not very suitable.

Nothing wrong with playing with a pick -- or your fingers. Lots of ways of getting good and usable sounds out of a bass. Being a good bass player is more about being musical than having blinding technique. So find an instrument that you find it easy to get some music out of.

The instrument I've had for 25 years is a single pup Vantage X-88 P-bass copy -- I have no idea whether it's "really" a good bass or not, but it helps me do musical things when I play it, I got on with it from the get-go, and I've never felt I needed anything better.

The only thing I've done recently is I bought a Roland Bass Cube-30, which is way cool with all the classic amp and cab emulations. Great little package I bought for my son when he joined his first rock band.

Me - "How did you get to be a bass player in this band? You don't play bass. You don't even own a bass!"

My son - "Yeah, but you do."

So there it is. My 13yo son's qualifications for getting into his first band was that his old man owned a bass! :) (He's got his own now, though...)

-Mark

[photoweborama]

One piece of advice. If you get a short scale bass, strings are hard to find....
I wanted to put flatwounds on the Bronco.. now way.. can't find them.
none of the local shops even carry short scale strings...

[FrankJohnson]

You already mentioned that you play guitar and are looking at this as an additioin to what you already do.

Consider not buying low end, but not going to steep either. That way if you want to go further, you don't have to drop everything, sell one to buy a new better one..........

I didn't catch if you already have a bass amp or not. Absolutely a consideration. You can pick up a decent small amp and run it into your board for recording, mic it or whatever for recording.

If you want to go further, bass rigs are usually pretty expensive to get a decent setup. More than they typcal guitar combo amp set up anyway.

I still stand by what i mentioned earlier, and add.......go shopping in person......try lots of stuff if you are not in a big hurry. see what fits YOU.

[Phil M]

I am a guitarist and the bass will be primarily for recording purposes. However, I want it to be worthy enough to jam with a full band or loan to guests, etc. I picked a couple up last night and the difference between a Jazz and Precision was apparent. I think I want a Precision style bass. What I don't know is whether I want to get an SX or a MIM. I didn't try any other brands yet, but will keep an eye out for anything that's acceptable.

I don't have a bass amp and won't be getting one at this juncture. I will be running direct to a MOTU or the PA. I have an old Sansamp GT-2 that I plan to use for going direct with bass. I'm not yet at the stage where I plan to buy a dedicated bass amp (and am aware that basses can damage guitar amps).

[frank thomson]

One piece of advice. If you get a short scale bass, strings are hard to find....
I wanted to put flatwounds on the Bronco.. now way.. can't find them.
none of the local shops even carry short scale strings...

they keep them next to the left-handed-hammers

[Kap'n]

Back in the day, Gibson EB-0's and EB-3's were considered "Guitar Player Basses" due to their skinny necks and short scales. Cheap too, but that's certainly changed. :lol

They aren't going to sound like anything modern, but they work for old school sounds for demo recordings, etc.

Musicmaster and Mustang basses also fit into that niche. Musicmasters have six-pole guitar pickups, which originally was a limitation, but OTOH, you can find a lot of different replacement rail pickups that work fine. Lots of people use Seymour Duncan Cool Rails. I tried a Bill (and Becky)Lawrence L-250XL, and it sounded good, but was a little hot on the E string.

[Phil M]

Back in the day, Gibson EB-0's and EB-3's were considered "Guitar Player Basses" due to their skinny necks and short scales. Cheap too, but that's certainly changed. :lol

They aren't going to sound like anything modern, but they work for old school sounds for demo recordings, etc.

That brings back the memories. In my first "band" my bass playing buddy had something called a Gibson Grabber with a sliding pickup. It sounded awful, but that might've just been him...

[Gravity Jim]

My high school jazz band owned a Gibson EB-0 and a blue metalflake Naugahyde® Kustom bass amp. They owned them because if you went to Guy Zimmerman Music and said, "I dunno nuthin', Guy, what's real good?," he sold you a Gibson and a Kustom because it was the most expensive stuff he carried.

Playing that rig was my first exposure to bass. I'm so happy I eventually discovered that Fender basses sounded different.

Phil, it wasn't your bass player. It was the Grabber.

[Kap'n]

blue metalflake Naugahyde®

You do know that blue metalflake nauga hide only comes from premium nauga, just like blue sable, don't you? After they skin them, they put 'em in cans, like so.



The metalic blue can indicating the premium product.

Brown and other lesser naugas are put in these cans.

[Gravity Jim]

I KNEW they couldn't be letting all that Great Nauga go to waste!

"Soylent Green is NAUGA!!!!!"

[Phil M]

Playing that rig was my first exposure to bass. I'm so happy I eventually discovered that Fender basses sounded different.

Phil, it wasn't your bass player. It was the Grabber.

Yeah, he was OK. He later got one of those Ernie Ball Musicman basses that were real popular in the mid-90s and an Ampeg SVT III head. WAY better.

[Phil M]

I bought an Ibanez that I really like, has a thinner jazz bass style neck, active EQ, a Jazz bass style pick up at the bridge, and P bass style pick up at the neck. I had to try several in the store before I found one that was set up well enough to play, but I blame the shop for that. They said they just got them in and hadn't gotten to doing the set up yet. Best of all it only cost me $210.00. For the little bit of bass I play in church and some occasional messing around for home recording purposes it's great.

Was this at the HOG?