Suhr Backplate vs. Dummy Coil Mod on a Stratocaster

[Totally bored]

I really like my Stock pups on my 62 AVRI but hated the Hum. Was looking into installing a Suhr Backplate but then started tinkering and came up with this Mod.

Using stock 250k Pots.

Dummy coil is a Old Plastic Bobbin Fender Japan pup with magnets removed.

Bottom Tone Pot is wired to Roll of Treble on just the Bridge Pup, personel preference.
I Could have wired it as a Master Tone for all pups but I often ride on the Bridge pup at a gig with the Tone on 8.
I never need to roll off tone on the Neck and Middle pup so...

Stock pups are about 6k and the Dummy Coil is about 6k. If you measure at the output jack you'll measure 6k.
Roll back the Middle pot and the resistance will increase up to 12k and the Hum just goes away, AWESOME !

I must note with this setup I noticed there was a considerable amount of hum still until I flipped the dummy coil.
I imagine that I could have just flipped the Dummy coil wires on the Middle pot to achieve the same result.

Such a useful MOD especially for guys that love there stock vintage Pups but need to take away the Hum when needed.

Tell me what you think ?

[Totally bored]

I'm amazed at the No response and no intersest in this Mod ?

This Mod cost me nothing to do. It involved mutilating a cheap pickup I had laying around and using the existing electroinics in my guitar and can easily be reversed back to stock.

With the mddle tone pot in the normal position you get the exact same tones you know and love with your vintage style pickups. Roll back the middle tone knob and the Hum is greatly reduced to almost nothing. I find this Mod extremely useful for playing clubs where you get excessive hum and have the need to reduce it.

And it is a whole lot cheaper than $259 for the Suhr backplate.

O well, thought I would share.

Peace.

[rudutch]

cool

[Totally bored]

lol

I can now sleep at nite knowing that I got a response. Thanks !
[ Jumps up and Down and spills coffee ]


"cool"

[melody]

I like your idea too, I will have to try it out...Thanks for sharing!

[Totally bored]

There is a very slight Treble loss with the Dummy coil engaged due to inductance.. Many Suhr Backplate users have experienced the same issue with "Slight Treble loss.

BTW The Suhr Backplate is a Dummy Coil.

To me it's no big deal and not very noticeable. At High gain I usually roll back the tone a little on stock style vintage pups to avoid the Ice picky sound you get. And like I said before, With the mddle tone pot in the normal position you get the exact same tones you know and love with your vintage style pickups.

A very useful Mod. I find I don't need to engage the coil most times but if I'm playing a club and there is an excessive amout of hum I can eliminate most if not all by just simply rolling back the tone knob.

It's just way killer.

Here is a shot of the what it looks like all wired up.
Please ignore the sloppy soldering and in general sloppy looks. It was a protype shot. It took me about 5 trys to get it correct. This photo is from one of my Cheaper strats. When I finally got it right I installed it on my beloved 62 AV RI.

[pseudocat]

I've thought a lot about the dummy coil concept, but I've never tried it.

As I'm one of those "incessant tinkerer" types, I might have to do some experimenting. And I have some old MIM Strat pickups laying around that it's unlikely I'll ever use.

It looks like you taped the coil to the bottom of the control cavity -- is that correct?

[rudutch]

lol

I can now sleep at nite knowing that I got a response. Thanks !
[ Jumps up and Down and spills coffee ]


"cool"

okay - you are a GENIUS no on else has done this
happy?

[Jonnda]

If you had come up with this idea last year I would have written one of the first commentaries.

but lately I've been on here only about one or twice a month...

so here is what i've got to say:

[Totally bored]

It looks like you taped the coil to the bottom of the control cavity -- is that correct?

It's just laying in the cavity with lots of electrical tape wrapped around it. There is so much stuff in there that it seems okay just laying there. It don't seem to move around or make any movement noises. I have heard others have screwed the pup/dummy coil in to keep in place but at this point I want it to be a totally reverseable mod so ....
I may screw it in down the road or velcro it down ?

I did this mod to my Danelectro DC59 and velcro'd it in place due to the large control cavity. Differant wiring Mod but same principle. Works great BTW.

[Totally bored]

okay - you are a GENIUS no on else has done this
happy?

[melody]

I see you have it wired with the blender pot, NO?

[Totally bored]

I see you have it wired with the blender pot, NO?

Nope. I used all the stock electronics. The only thing added was the dummy coil wich was a cheap plastic bobbin pup that I removed the magnets on. I left the plastic pup cover on to help shield the "Dummy Coil" and I wrapped it in electrical tape.

[Totally bored]

If it works for you, cool. I don't shield or use rwrp middle pickups in my strats. A guy I played with had the Suhr backplate. His guitar was noisier than mine. Go figure.

I can only imagine that it may have been wired wrong ?

A Dummy coil and or a Suhr Backplate ( Wich is a Dummy Coil BTW ) should remove most or almost all of the 60 cycle Hum.

I don't shield my Strats either but I do have a couple with RW pups. The problem with that is it don't help me much cause I usually ride on the Bridge pup. I use all positions but the Bridge pup is where I live.

Again, this mod WILL NOT effect your Vintage style pup tone that you know and love but it does give you the option of eliminating excessive 60 cycle hum at a club that maybe noisy by simply rolling back the middle tone knob . And it's a Cheap Mod ! Cost me nothing.

Cheap is good.

[G.g.]

@ Totally Bored:

Am i correct? The pickup set should have a non RWRP mid pup, and the dummie should be RWRP, and then remove the magnet?

[Totally bored]

@ Totally Bored:

Am i correct? The pickup set should have a non RWRP mid pup, and the dummie should be RWRP, and then remove the magnet?

All pups should be regular meaning the middle should NOT be reverse wound and you will get Noise canceling in all 5 positions.

The Dummy coil Pickup don't matter if its reverse wound cause you can just flip it either way or reverse the wiring on the middle pot.


I have a small update on this:
Yesterday I moved 2 wires. If you look at the schematic I provided you'll see the wire that comes from the 5 way switch and the wire from the dummy coil are solder'd in to the bottom lug on the Middle Pot.
I moved both of them wires to the top lug. ( Not the middle )

Tiny modification but what this does is reverse the direction that Middle tone pot will reduce the hum. The way it was wired you had to Roll away the hum. With the change you roll back the hum in the direction much like in the direction of rolling back treble on a Tone pot.

Minor Modification to the original design yes, but I thought I would point that out. I quess I'm still in the design stage ?

I'm still tinkering and trying to improve design. I have a 89 Strat that has the swimming pool route and I may do this mod to that guitar and mount the Dummy coil in the swimming pool route closer to the pups. I have read that this is one reason for the design of the Suhr back plate as it is closer to the pups possibly reducing more hum and less tone loss ?

[hippiebob01]

okay - you are a GENIUS no on else has done this
happy?

[hippiebob01]

Will this work for RWRP pickups? I'm looking to get hum canceling in position 1.

[Totally bored]

It will work for a RWP.

If for example you have the RWP in the middle position it will eliminate Hum in position 1 and 5 but not 3 unless you flip the dummy coil over and it will cancel Hum in position 3 but not position 1 and 5.

[hippiebob01]

That's ok. I don't really use position 3. What do you mean by flipping it over? Actually flipping the entire pickup assembly?

[Totally bored]

That's ok. I don't really use position 3. What do you mean by flipping it over? Actually flipping the entire pickup assembly?

Flipping over the Dummy coil in the cavity. It either works one way or the other.

Or you could just reverse the Dummy coil wires on the pot on the diagram I have shown.

Also, take a look at the pic I show. You'll see a small shot of the Dummy Coil. The pup has the cover on it and wrapped in electrical tape. If you can make it out. The Bobbin side is on the bottom and on top of that is the cover.

Flipping the Dummy coil would mean the Bobbin side would be on top and the Cover would be on the the Bottom.

If that makes sense ?

[hippiebob01]

Yeah, so basically I would have the bobbin facing upwards instead of the cover?

[Totally bored]

What you would basically do is to wire it all up and plop it all in per my wiring instructions. Hook up the guitar to an amp with gain and roll back or forward ( depending )the Middle pot and the Hum should go away.

If it hums then flip the dummy coil and shouldn't hum the other way.

You'll know when you have it all apart and start tinkering. No need to throw the strings on when doing this to evaluate the hum. It works either one way or the other.

It's easy.

You can do this. I'll check back from time to time if you need help.

[G.g.]

Or you could just reverse the Dummy coil wires on the pot on the diagram I have shown.

So, if you use a push/pullpot (to switch the two wires around) you can use the dummy with a RWRP middle pup?

[Totally bored]

Yes

and you can switch the wires around on the Pot also or just flip the Dummy Coil.

You can use a Push Pull pot as I originally wired it with one but I wanted to use the stock electronics on my 62 AVRI so I wouldn't loose the parts by removing them. Like I typed earlier. This mods involves using all the existing parts in your Guitar and adding another pickup with the magnets removed otherwords known as the "Dummy Coil"

[Totally bored]

IMO dummy coils and the Suhr backplate affect true single coil tone. The one that the guy a played with had was wired correctly. I'll live with the buzz, to have the tone.YMMV.

I can't answer the Noisy Suhr Backplate on that guys guitar cause it just don't make sense ?

They do affect tone but very slightly. It is a very slight Treble loss and almost not noticeable. You really have to roll back the tone knob back and fourth to hear the differance and it is minimal. Not only that but your really only gonna roll back the Middle Tone knob to eliminate Hum in High Gain conditions. Low gain or Clean sound your just not gonna use the MOD Imo.

I find that in most of my gigs I don't need it but there have been a couple gigs that the clubs was a bit to Noisy and it was really nice to just roll back the Middle tone Knob and the Hum just went away.

Also, when I'm home practicing in front of my PC it can get a little noisy so I use it then.

You don't have to engage the Knob if you don't need it.

[NeoFauve]

IMO dummy coils and the Suhr backplate affect true single coil tone.

Am I correct in assuming that neither of these discriminates between the 60Hz that is generated by neon lights etc and the 60Hz that is more than likely present in the harmonic bouquet of whatever you're playing?
They just block all 60Hz?

[Kap'n]

Am I correct in assuming that neither of these discriminates between the 60Hz that is generated by neon lights etc and the 60Hz that is more than likely present in the harmonic bouquet of whatever you're playing?
They just block all 60Hz?

No. All coils act as antennas for electromagnetic waves. 60Hz from house wiring is the predominant one. Obviously in Europe it would be 50Hz.

Humbuckers/dummy coils work by being an antenna for the same wave, but reversed polarity, so it cancels the wave (1 + -1 = 0)

In the case of a humbucker, the reversed magnetic polarity polepieces in the reversed polarity coil creates an additive guitar signal. (1 + 1 = 2).

In the case of the dummy coil/Suhr system, there's no detection of the guitar signal in the second coil (1 + 0 = 1).

However, adding an additional coil adds inductance that will affect the guitar signal to a greater or lesser degree. The Suhr system, apparently is wound to minimize the effect, compared to a simple dummy coil. But in a passive system, it's pretty close to impossible to be completely transparent.

A concept for the tweakers: What if....

you ran your dummy coil/Suhr system as a stereo signal with your guitar signal into your amp? Run it into the unused channel. You could have a polarity reversal switch for it, depending on whether you're plugged into a tweed/Marshall vs. a Fender reverb amp.

[NeoFauve]

I sorta' get most of that.

Hey, weren't you thinking of trying the Backplate a while ago?
What became of that?

[Kap'n]

Nothing, really. Other priorities. There's one or two rooms around here that are hell on single coils. You can barely use them for clean, much less any sort of dirt, and then, only on a couple of outlets. I just bring something with humbuckers or filtertrons.

[Joobsauce]

Stupid question here!!!

If the resistance increases, isn't this also like boosting your single coil output like a boost pedal for say solos? That could come in handy, louder and less hum!

[Totally bored]

Stupid question here!!!

If the resistance increases, isn't this also like boosting your single coil output like a boost pedal for say solos? That could come in handy, louder and less hum!

Not the same thing. It will still sound like a single coil.



Anyone try this out yet or am I the only nut job in constant tinkering mode ?

[G.g.]

you are not the only dummiecoil geek. I have one working in my main strat (but can't switch it of, so can't compare:

[Totally bored]

[QUOTE=G.g.;459351]you are not the only dummiecoil geek. I have one working in my main strat (but can't switch it of, so can't compare:

Cool

Have you thought about having the option of switching it on or off with a Push/Pull Pot or conventional Pot or your just good with it be inline and on all the time ?

My Danelectro DC59 is setup like that ( On all the time) BTW.

[G.g.]

Have you thought about having the option of switching it on or off with a Push/Pull Pot or conventional Pot or your just good with it be inline and on all the time ?

It's always on, and i like it that way in this strat.

Im starting to build another strat from scratch and in that one i'll use your schematic with the blenderpot in combination with a nonRWRP set of pups.

[Totally bored]

It's always on, and i like it that way in this strat.

Im starting to build another strat from scratch and in that one i'll use your schematic with the blenderpot in combination with a nonRWRP set of pups.

Just in case and you probably already know this but......

My Schematic don't use a Blender pot , It use's the stock 250k pots.
I also need to update that schematic a little, if you read earlier in the thread I moved 2 wires on the Middle tone pot so the Tone knob rolls Back instead of Rolling away. It's not a biggie but thought I would point that out. You may like it Rolling away. It still works good either way.

Hope that makes sense to you ?

[G.g.]

Just in case and you probably already know this but......

My Schematic don't use a Blender pot , It use's the stock 250k pots.
I also need to update that schematic a little, if you read earlier in the thread I moved 2 wires on the Middle tone pot so the Tone knob rolls Back instead of Rolling away. It's not a biggie but thought I would point that out. You may like it Rolling away. It still works good either way.

Hope that makes sense to you ?

Is this what you had in mind?

[djd100]

Thanks!

This works great IMO (The tone loss is really quite minimal)!

I just added a dummy MIJ pup that I had laying around (sans mag and pole pieces), and it's cut down the noise a lot on my 66 Strat (say 85%?). I had put Virtual Vintage DiMarzio's in my MIJ and Warmouth Strats that are used on the road, but didn't want to wreck my 66's tone with them etc.

This is a great idea (I just wired mine to be on all the time so I could still have two tone knobs), thanks again!

I really like my Stock pups on my 62 AVRI but hated the Hum. Was looking into installing a Suhr Backplate but then started tinkering and came up with this Mod.

[Totally bored]

Glad I could help.

This is a great mod for people that use and love stock vintage style pups but play clubs with bad wiring.

[djd100]

Or for folks who record around video monitors etc.

Has anyone A/B'd this mod against the Suhr version?

I'd be interested in the differences aside from cost?

Thanks again Totally bored!

Glad I could help.

This is a great mod for people that use and love stock vintage style pups but play clubs with bad wiring.