Fender Harvard Reverb II

[NeoFauve]

I only noticed 2 reviews that stated it had speaker or "cab" outs.
One guy, I think, mentioned he thought the amp could drive a cabinet.

Note that one review says the amp has no distortion. It has "Volume," "Gain" and "Master Volume" controls. It was made to produce distortion at low volumes.

It's just not a good idea to base your expectations on Harmony Central reviews.

The best photos you have (the ebay ad in French) don't show the speaker jacks, yours doesn't have them.
That's all you need to know.

Plug it in and play it 'til the manual arrives. When it does, you might not care anymore.

[kcwm]

As it was stated before, $65 for a Fender SS amp isn't bad at all, especially if it sounds good. It's hard to get a decent new SS amp from Guitar Center or musiciansfriend.com for that amount...and if you do, I'm pretty sure the quality isn't there.

[EvilTwin]

Well,
You both have valid points. I'm happy with the amp at the price I paid and the tone it produces. It will put me at ease once the manual arrives and confirms the fact that it is an original amp. Thanks.

[JAM]

Well,
...I'm happy with the amp at the price I paid and the tone it produces. ...

That's the bottom line. Looking at the photo of the amp with the extra speaker jacks, I'm convinced they're not original. I've never seen Fender put a (rear panel) jack and not label the connection. I have a Fender 85 (SS) that's primarily a practice/teaching amp that sounds quite nice. (It did not have a speaker jack, the wires came direct from the PCB through a strain relief to the speaker. I added one, but it had to be ground isolated)

[EvilTwin]

Jam,
Well, I think the general consensus is, I got a keeper. Did you ever find that brochure? Thanks for the input.



EvilTwin

[JAM]

Jam,
Well, I think the general consensus is, I got a keeper. Did you ever find that brochure? Thanks for the input.



EvilTwin

I looked for it in one place yesterday, I'll search for it again where I might have put some older catalogs and such.

[hippiebob01]

That's the bottom line. Looking at the photo of the amp with the extra speaker jacks, I'm convinced they're not original. I've never seen Fender put a (rear panel) jack and not label the connection. I have a Fender 85 (SS) that's primarily a practice/teaching amp that sounds quite nice. (It did not have a speaker jack, the wires came direct from the PCB through a strain relief to the speaker. I added one, but it had to be ground isolated)

Thought so.

[Victorilux]

Note: My next amp will be the Fender Twin PRO Tube 100 watt once I have the money.

EvilTwin

Been there, done that. Don't waste your money.

Too loud, Too heavy, Cheap ass PCB guts, reverb was ok, tremolo was almost ok. Not even close to worth the money. Once you know what a good overdrive SHOULD sound like, that second channel is pretty much a complete waste.

Wisley spent money can afford you a much nicer amp with enough reading and patience. Or just do what most of the guys here have done and buy a Deluxe Reverb Re-issue....for half the cost, they sound better than the twin too!

[hippiebob01]

I have the Pro Tube Twin. Try and find a Deluxe Reverb or Super Reverb instead.

[EvilTwin]

The Deluxe Reverb and the Super Reverb Seem like nice amps but neither of these amps offer an effects loop. I would be inclined to buy a Fender tube amp that has an effects loop so I can run an effects processor through it and use it as a stand alone amp also. The Twin seems to have it all and the two amps that you guys suggest doesn't offer what I'm looking for.



EvilTwin

[ziess]

What effects are you running?
I bet you wouln't need half of them with a DRRI... It's got great (really, really great) drive, trem and reverb built in. All I would add is a boost and maybe a delay pedal.
Once you get a real good amp you'll probably find that a lot of your conceptions about what you 'needed' previously are downright wrong!

Best,
Tommy.

[EvilTwin]

I'm using a Boss GT-PRO. I'm would be looking for a tube amp that would allow me to use it as a stand alone amp and the ability to use a four cable method with it as well.


EvilTwin

[ziess]

The four-what method?

Tommy.

[JAM]

A good amp is just as much an instrument as your guitar. I've never used the effects loop on the amps I've owned that had them.

[EvilTwin]

I agree that the amp is as much (if not more of) an instrument as the guitar. I just want the ability to have all options available to me with the amp and the effects processor. In other words, have my cake and eat it two.

The four cable method allows you to configure the amp in diffident ways within the effects chain with my processor. The hole point of my statements about the amp I am looking for, is so I have the ability to experiment with the GT-PRO and have the ability to have a great tube amp as a stand alone (Unplugged from the effects processor).



EvilTwin

[JAM]

No problem. I just havent heard an amp with an effects loop that sounds as good (IMO of course), as a Deluxe, Super or Bassman.

[EvilTwin]

That's to bad. I guess there are somethings you can't completely get with a Fender Tube amp then. I guess there would have to be a compromise or go with another manufacturers amp that offers what I am seeking.



EvilTwin

[detuned]

SuperSonic?

Those sound very nice, & I *think* it has a loop, although I wasn't looking at the back of the amp that closely...

[EvilTwin]

Thanks for the input on the Supersonic. I'll check it out.


EvilTwin

[Victorilux]

Ziess has the right idea, good tone doesn't come from effects, it starts at the fingers and is then influenced primarily by the guitar and amplifier.

If you not happy with your clean sound, adding effects just covers up the deficiency, it doesn't make it any better...then you add gain to a bad clean sound, its just a bad clean sound with overdrive...

Masterpieces aren't painted on cardboard...


I said you could get alot more amp for your money, anyone reasonable would encourage you to look at companies other than Fender to find what suits YOU.
Find a good tube amp with a sound that you like, and you'll be hocking that boss processor for some NOS tubes in no time.

[EvilTwin]

Victorilux,
I whole heartily agree with you as far as tone goes.

I think you are missing my point. I want the clean tones of a fender amp plus the ability to experiment with the digital effects.

Note: If I were to buy one of the amps suggested I would still have to find another amp to run my effects into for experimentation purposes due to the fact the amps suggested do not have effects loops (i.e....can't bypass the amps pre-amp). Don't be offended but, why would I want to buy two different amps that will more than likely cost me more that $2,600.00 total when all I am looking for is a good Fender tube amp with the ability to run electronic effects through it?




EvilTwin

[hippiebob01]

IMO, I think a DRRI or a SRRI would sound fine with this configuration:

guitar->effects->amp

[NTBluesGuitar]

You're wanting a good solution for running digital products through analog technology?

Get a DRRI, and run a Samson USB Condenser mic into a laptop. I've seen guys run that through a mixer board on stage, too.

[ziess]

What do you mean by 'experimentation'? How about getting something like a DDRI for real tube amp sounds and maybe something clean like a Crate PowerBlock (it's SS but surely that's no different from bypassing the amp's preamp) and then running the output of that through the DRRI's speaker?
I fear that you may miss out on a fantastic tube amp sound in order that you have available a lot of clean, uncoloured power (that is, getting a Pro Tube twin purely for the fact it's got an effects loop). Maybe one serious amp and something that's loud enough to give you a decent uncoloured sound (that's basically what you're looking for, right?) is the best way forward.

I am yet to hear *anything* that sounds as good as my vintage-style Fenders (well ok, they're not Fenders but I built them to Fender specs) but I can understand your desire to be able to bypass the preamp. What about having an effects loop installed in a vintage reissue Fender? A Bassman would be killer for your role and would also have the added benefits of not only sounding killer (seriously, one of the top two amp circuits ever designed) but it's also yellow!

Best,
Tommy.

[hippiebob01]

I believe MF has Crate Powerblocks for $99.

It's refurbished, but comes with a full manufacturers warranty:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...mp?sku=487829V

They sound good and they don't make them anymore.

[ziess]

Kerching! There you go, a good solution and a cheap one!

Tommy.

[EvilTwin]

Guys, thanks for the input. I need to do some more research on the right amp for me that has an FX Loop. Thanks again.




EvilTwin

[hippiebob01]

Also, consider an A/B box.

[NeoFauve]

I think you are missing my point. I want the clean tones of a fender amp plus the ability to experiment with the digital effects.

You may be right, about missing your point.

I'm guessing you aren't looking for (this thing called) "tone" from the effects, but actually want to use effects.

Don't be surprised if the general consensus is that Fender's amps w/loops are not the best Fender amps.

A loop isn't the only way to connect effects to your amp.

The A/B box is an idea.

Depending on what effects you'd be using from your processor and how radically you'd use them, you COULD run them right into the amp.
Or if the processor includes amp modelling, you could run it direct. Use it as a seperate sound source.

In addition to experimenting w/effects, it looks like you'll be experimenting with how to work them into your setup.
Good luck.

[EvilTwin]

You may be right, about missing your point.

I'm guessing you aren't looking for (this thing called) "tone" from the effects, but actually want to use effects.

Don't be surprised if the general consensus is that Fender's amps w/loops are not the best Fender amps.

A loop isn't the only way to connect effects to your amp.

The A/B box is an idea.

Depending on what effects you'd be using from your processor and how radically you'd use them, you COULD run them right into the amp.
Or if the processor includes amp modelling, you could run it direct. Use it as a seperate sound source.

In addition to experimenting w/effects, it looks like you'll be experimenting with how to work them into your setup.
Good luck.

Yep,
Now that's what I'm talking about ! I have definitely got the impression that the amp I'm looking for is not held in high regard here.

The A/B box is not really a solution to what I am after.

The effects unit I have gives me the capability to move any effect in front of or after the amplifier depending what cabling method I use. This is why I am looking for the FX loop built into the amp, without the FX loop I can't do this. The direct line-in method is ok if I want to color the amps pre-amp, or add different cab simulations and amp simulations in conjunction with the amps pre-amp. My effects will always be located before the amps pre-amp if this is done and I am looking to have the capability to shift effects anywhere I want in the loop as well as bypass the amps pre-amp.


Unfortunately it appears that I won't be able to achieve this since the general consensus (as you have stated) is these amps with this option are not very good amps.

As far as an additional amp goes I have the "Harvard Reverb II" I just bought (that has the FX loop) but I am interested in a Tube amp that can produce good tone as a stand alone amp and has the flexibility with an FX Loop.


Thanks again for the input from all of you.

Note: If anyone is wondering why I can afford a $700.00 rack mount effects unit and not a good tube amp right now, well, I received the FX unit as a X-Mass present and I'm unemployed at the moment.



EvilTwin

[EvilTwin]

SuperSonic?

Those sound very nice, & I *think* it has a loop, although I wasn't looking at the back of the amp that closely...

The Supersonic looks like what I'm after but it is missing some of the things from the Twin I was looking for also. Maybe a compromise is in order. Thanks for the idea.



EvilTwin

[hippiebob01]

I own the Pro Tube Twin that you are talking about. It's a good amp, and you may actually decide that you like it. It has usable features on it, but the drive channel is useless (IMO), and you aren't gonna get tube saturation until you hit around 5 or 6 on the normal channel. Also, it's really heavy, so factor that in too. Retubing is really expensive. I can't comment on the FX Loop because I don't use it, but the 1/4 power switch does come in handy. Who knows, you may try it and find it is exactly what you have been looking for.

[EvilTwin]

Hippiebob01,
That's why I was attracted to the Pro Twin Tube amp. All the features are exactly what I am looking for; 100 watt/25 watt tube, 1/4 power switch, reverb, tremolo, speed, intensity, two channels which I can control and switch from my FX unit, external speaker jack, user bias control, FX Loop with input and out controls, ect, ,ect, ect.....


As far as power output is concerned I would look into a power attenuator so I could drive the tubes but be able to control the volume at low levels.

Weight isn't a factor since it will be stationary, plus it has casters if I need to move it.

Re-tubing: I don't think this will be a problem either since I can bias the tubes myself and adjust them to suite my needs, from what I have been reading about replacing tubes. Plus I would like to try out a variety of different tubes on this amp.

The Drive channel wouldn't be an issue either since I will more than likely use my FX unit for the drive channel.


Actually since typing this I am convinced that this amp is the perfect amp for what I want to do. I was looking at another amp but they discontinued it, the Pro Reverb.




EvilTwin

[hippiebob01]

There's a brand new Pro Reverb in one of the music stores here that's been there since 2002 or so. It's a nice amp, but I can't bring myself to pay $900+ for it.

What I was talking about the retubing would be that it is going to be pretty expensive. Mine has 4 6L6 power tubes, 5 12AX7, and 3 12AT7. An entire retubing would run you around $175+ just for new production tubes.

[Victorilux]

Evil Twin, we are trying to help you, not be a pain in your ass. Do you honestly think we come back to this thread and give advice just to aggravate you?

Two things...

1) Unless your playing a 10,000 seat stadium, 100 tube watts is rediculoulsy loud. These are not cheap solid state amps, a 20-35 watt amp is about all you need for a small/medium club. If at that point you need more volume you should look into an extention cabinet, not more wattage. Double the wattage only results in an extra 3db...pretty sad. Adding another driver almost doubles your db's....alot cheaper to do it the right/easy way too!

2) Look at other companies...Fender is NOT the be all and end all of amplifiers...

http://www.traynoramps.com/products....&cat=63&id=392

Anybody sell these around you? They even kick a little ass on the high gain sounds, the clean is pretty good too. It has two inputs and an FX loop, and independant return levels on each channel. Its half the price of the twin, doesn't have the extra 12" driver, 50watts or 8 tubes you don't need either.

Look around man, there are lots of options out there, do a lot of reading before you do any spending

The internet is wonderful resource, and it's free to use after the monthly bill...take advantage!

[kcwm]

Let me see if this sums up what people are trying to get across.

You want to pay the price for a Pro Reverb (which apparently runs in the $900+ neighborhood), but due to the general consensus around here about the drive channel, only use the clean channel. I also understand your desire to have the effects loop. That's a hard thing to pass up if that's what you really want.

But, paying $900 for an amp to only use half of it doesn't really make sense, does it? You'll get similar "fender" cleans from the Pro Twin and the DRRI, right? The DRRI costs around $600 used, or less if you can find the right deal. Since the cleans are basically the same, that means you're paying an extra $300+ to have an effects loops. Is that really the wisest way to spend that $300 bucks?

I think the point that people are trying to make is that there's a better way to spend your money, albeit in a different way than you apparently want to, to get the sound you're looking for. Maybe going the Crate Powerblock and A/B/Y'ing the guitar isn't the way to go.

Here's an idea. You get the DRRI for the great Fender clean, and find one for $600 bucks. You could pick up a Peavey Classic 30 for $250-300 used I believe, and it has an effects loops. Get yourself a reasonable A/B or A/B/Y switch and you're set. You have two very usable tube amps, and one has an effects loop. You spend the same amount as the Pro Tube, and if for some reason, you grow out of the effects phase, you can sell one and still have a good, solid tube amp.

Just a thought.

[Mesotech]

I think I've been in your exact situation in the past, and I know several people who are facing the same decisions you are now. Please allow me to add some of my lessons learned to the fray. You (and others) may or may not agree, but these are my experiences.

I have a Digitech GNX3 I bought a few years ago. I got it because it offered several things I desired at the time. I didn't have many effects, but wanted to use some. Looking at prices, the GNX3 seemed to be a good deal. It would allow me to record direct to the computer, or use the onboard 8 track recorder. It could go in front of an amp, or into the effects loop. It had amp modeling, cab modeling, effects modeling, and all the assorted bells and whistles that make such things attractive. While the unit is usefull, it's not all that its cracked up to be. Running it into the effects loop of a tube amp is utterly useless. Sure, it works, but it sounds even better when run direct to the board. Putting it in front of the amp was worse than the effects loop. The best it ever sounded through an amp was run into the effects loop of my old Peavey Renown (a solid state amp). I also have a PodXT that I use to record most of what I do with. It sounds great, and eliminates a whole world of logistic problems that mic'ing an amp introduces. I don't use it live, but keep it as a backup.

I have a friend that just got for Christmas a brand new Carvin V3 half stack, and a Digitech GNX 3000. The Carvin sounds excellent by itself, but he really hasn't aquired what I call "maturity of tone" yet, so he's not satisfied with the amp alone. He wants to use his GNX 3000 along with the amp (understandable considering what he paid for it, and what it should be able to do for him). Unfortunately, no matter how he uses it with the amp, the GNX 3000 basically kills the live feeling of the amp. It's either very harsh through the front end, or lackluster through the effects loop.

I have another friend that has a Peavey 5150 and a PodXT Live. The amp by itself sounds great. The PodXT Live sounds great. The combination stinks. He's recently taken my advice and began putting the PodXT Live into a 300 watt SS PA head, then into his half stack cab.

Another friend has a PodXT Live and a Carvin MTS3200. He used to use the PodXT Live with the Carvin, but now understands how to properly use his amp alone. With a wah pedal in the front end, and a delay in the effects loop, he can get any tone he wants from the proper choice of guitar and amp combination. The PodXT Live still serves him well in his recording environment, but he refuses to use it live anymore.

What you are wanting to achieve is admirable, and quite understandable. So much so that many before you have attempted the exact same thing. Many are still trying to make it work. Many think it is working for them, yet they still are searching for some magic mojo dust to sprinkle on top, yet can't find it. The reality is, if you want real tube sound (hence your search for a real tube amp), the only way to get authentic tones is to do it the way its been done for many years, by learning to use a real tube amp the way it was intended to be used. Otherwise, get a nice clean SS power amp (Crate Powerblock) to use the modeler with, or run it direct to the board.

Here is the common disconnect that many people seem to miss. SS amps are used to reproduce tones. Amp/effects modelers are used to reproduce reasonable (mostly) examples of the tones they are simulating. The combination of the two tend to work well.

Tube amps do not reproduce tone, they are used to generate tone. Adding two tone generators together compromises the advantages obtained from either by themselves. The combination rarely works as you might hope.

The others here that are trying to give advice are doing so with all the best intentions. I would venture to guess that they all have experimented a time or two with these combinations themselves and came to the same realizations. No one is trying to say it can't be done. They're just saying it's really not worth trying, especially from the aspect of money spent in the long run. You can get very good results for a lot less money if you simply listen to the advice and try a few of the solutions out before you spend any additional dough.

[kcwm]

very well said.

[rudutch]

+2

and if you worried about $65 wait untill you re-tube a twin amp..
If I recall it was close to $200

[melody]

Meso, A man of many great explanations...