Princeton Reverb ri first report

[Marcondo]

This was written by Billm the guy that does all the blues jr mods.

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I saw and played the Princeton Reverb Reissue today at the New York Guitar Show. Proud poppa Shane Nicholas (Fender vp of marketing) says it'll be in stores in June at $799.

It sounds like 1965 all over again--surprisingly rich bass, better than most PRs I've heard. And that Blackface tone is exactly right, but it gets that great Princeton edge and fairly reasonable volume. The reverb is rich and full, and can be moderated from a pleasant echo to full surf. The tank is in a bag. The lowest speed on the tremolo is slower than I remember, which is a good thing, and it has that great bias-trem sound.

THIS IS NO BEDROOM AMP. It's loud, although like other 15 watt amps, it will likely be marginal with a loud drummer.

It's built just like the DRRI and the TRRI, on a circuit board. I think that's the right way to go... maybe a little inconvenient for us modders, but it ensures consistency from amp to amp. Yes, sure, some owners will tear out the circuit board and install an eyelet board, and they'll rave about how much better the tone is. But for 99 percent of people who have been yearning for a real live blackface Princeton Reverb, this is the real deal.

The speaker is a Jensen P10R, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded it the PR cab. The baffle is removable, and there's room for a 12-inch speaker if you're so inclined.

[NDRU]

Strange, I've seen actual blackface Princetons for the same price

[Marcondo]

Strange, I've seen actual blackface Princetons for the same price

Ya me too a few years ago.

Check the current BF PR prices you might be surprised.

SF PR's are $800 BF ones much higher.

[elicross]

The latest Guitar Player has a guitar review that mentions a "65 Princeton Reverb reissue" among the amps the reviewer tested the guitar with. I wondered if that was an early review unit of the new PRRI. I haven't seen a review of the amp in the magazine, though.

[Kap'n]

FMIC is finally discovering the amps that customers want from them.

It's only take close to a quarter century. Not bad.

The boomer market (aka - the people who actually buy Fender amps) was already turning toward 20W and lower amps ten years ago...just a couple of years before Fender came out with the SRRI.

Just enough time to piss away a bunch of market share.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Sounds exciting. Can't wait to see what these go for on the used market. How long would that take...a year or two?

That'll be about the time I'm ready to buy one.

[Marcondo]

If they hit the streets for $800 you should be able to get a used one for $500 easy a couple years down the road.

[Totally bored]

Cool can't wait to check one out. I like the idea that it has a removable baffle and room for a 12". I made a baffle for mine so I wouldn't destroy the original and stuck a 12" Celstion Vintage 30 in there. The amp sounds huge and plenty loud for any band or gig and I have done quite a few with her. My Deluxe Reverb still sounds a little bigger due to the cabinet size but you can't beat the portability of a PR.

Bought this baby for $150 about 15 years ago. Didn't know what it was but it sure was cute.

[MMP]

$550 Last year. Modded with mid control in second input hole, but easily restored to original. 10" Weber Classic alnico speaker.

[NeoFauve]

The latest Guitar Player has a guitar review that mentions a "65 Princeton Reverb reissue" among the amps the reviewer tested the guitar with.

I saw that too, in the rundown on that new Vox guitar.
I scratched my head. I thought perhaps they meat that PR Recording amp.

Removeable baffle: I like that.

[elicross]

Neo, I thought it might be the PR Recording Amp, too -- but in the introduction to that roundup of one-page guitar reviews in the same issue, they refer to a "new 65 Princeton Reverb." (I was remembering wrong when I said they called it a reissue; I just assumed they meant a reissue, because how else could it be a "new 65"?)

Anyway, I hope this means GP has one and we'll see a review soon.

[stratcat55]

Still seems a little pricey to me. I'd rather have a SF that's PTP. They're still pretty common and affordable.
I'm glad Fender is listening. Don't forget, way back even the Fender practice amps sounded great. Lots of people recorded with Champs and Princetons. I think 700 bucks for a pcb Princeton is pretty high. New they should be around $450-$500. That's just my opinion though. It's not like they had to do R&D, the circuit was already designed, plus there are a lot of 15 watt good sounding amps available already. You can get a used DRRI for around the same or less cash.
Depending on your band, it may be a tough amp to gig with without tossing a mic in front of it and getting it off the floor. I know I say this a lot, but I still think a 5e3 is more a versatile amp.

[NDRU]

Ya me too a few years ago.

Check the current BF PR prices you might be surprised.

SF PR's are $800 BF ones much higher.

I saw one for $800 just last year, but now that I recall it wasn't a reverb, just a Blackface Princeton

[hudpucker]

This was written by Billm the guy that does all the blues jr mods.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw and played the Princeton Reverb Reissue today at the New York Guitar Show. Proud poppa Shane Nicholas (Fender vp of marketing) says it'll be in stores in June at $799.

It sounds like 1965 all over again--surprisingly rich bass, better than most PRs I've heard. And that Blackface tone is exactly right, but it gets that great Princeton edge and fairly reasonable volume. The reverb is rich and full, and can be moderated from a pleasant echo to full surf. The tank is in a bag. The lowest speed on the tremolo is slower than I remember, which is a good thing, and it has that great bias-trem sound.

THIS IS NO BEDROOM AMP. It's loud, although like other 15 watt amps, it will likely be marginal with a loud drummer.

It's built just like the DRRI and the TRRI, on a circuit board. I think that's the right way to go... maybe a little inconvenient for us modders, but it ensures consistency from amp to amp. Yes, sure, some owners will tear out the circuit board and install an eyelet board, and they'll rave about how much better the tone is. But for 99 percent of people who have been yearning for a real live blackface Princeton Reverb, this is the real deal.

The speaker is a Jensen P10R, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded it the PR cab. The baffle is removable, and there's room for a 12-inch speaker if you're so inclined.

I dunno...this same guy thinks that stock Blues Juniors sound good....



Don't know that I agree that a circuit board is 'the right way to go' but...then again I'm not a marketing/bean counter either.

I do hope that Fender gets it 'right' but I'll stick to my hand-wired '68.

[stratcat55]

It's all about how much profit can we make with the nostalgia crowd.
This amp was sold as a small "combo group"/practice amp for those wanting more than a 6 watt Champ or Bronco. They sound great but they should give discounts for mass produced pcb amps. Blackface amps were not the end all be all amps tone wise, it depended on the model and what kind of tone you're looking for.

[boobtube21]

Still seems a little pricey to me...I think 700 bucks for a pcb Princeton is pretty high. New they should be around $450-$500.

No shit. You can get out the door with a brand new PCB-HRDx for ~$550. A smaller 15w amp, 10" speaker=more money??

Add to that your point about R&D already being done, handwired originals already available for almost the same $$$...it does seem a little on the high side.

[elicross]

No shit. You can get out the door with a brand new PCB-HRDx for ~$550. A smaller 15w amp, 10" speaker=more money??

Well, the fact that the PRRI is built on a PCB doesn't mean the whole amp is constructed as cheaply as the Hot Rod amps. The DRRI uses a PCB and has just a little over half the power of a Hot Rod Deluxe, but nobody seems all that bothered that a DRRI costs hundreds of dollars more than an HRDx...because PCB construction and output power aren't the whole story.

[NTBluesGuitar]

People who NEED the power of a HRD shouldn't be in the market for the PRRI anyway.

What percentage of HRD owners bought too much amp for their needs? Those with experience of the BF-style Fender circuits also probably wouldn't want a Hot Rod sound as a substitute for cost.

Are the 65 RI BF amps' cabs done in MDF, ply, or pine?

[hudpucker]

The RI cabs are ply, I think.

I know the HRD, BJ and Pro Jr are made of 'MDF.'

[NTBluesGuitar]

The RI cabs are ply, I think.

I know the HRD, BJ and Pro Jr are made of 'MDF.'

As do I!

[Rickenjangle]

I think I'll take a pass, as well. The PR is a fantastic sounding amp, whether BF or SF - but for that much coin I'd opt for a used DRRI, too.

Or better yet, save up - only $200 more gets ya an AC30 - and $200 less an AC15!

With the PRRI, you're paying for the name...

I do wonder, however, if the market will bear that price for a PRRI - or if they'll have to come down to about $649 in short order.

[hippiebob01]

I think I'll go for an AC15. Fender are tooting their own horn a little too much for the price point of an amp like this.

I don't see them selling them by the truckloads at $800. Maybe at around $550-650, but I can't justify spending DRRI cash on an amp I can build for $300 less.

[elicross]

If they can sell DRRIs new at $950, I wouldn't be surprised if they can sell PRRIs at $800.

[Totally bored]

Tough crowd.

Being an owner of a DR that I payed $75 for and a PR that I payed $150 for and knowing how really good they both sound, I would easily pay $800 for a PRRI and $950 for a DRRI in a heartbeat if they even came close to sounding as good and I bet they do.

All I know is that every time I gig out and if there are a bunch of guitar players there, they always are in love with my tone and they can't beleive the sounds I get out of these amps.

[stratcat55]

Well, the fact that the PRRI is built on a PCB doesn't mean the whole amp is constructed as cheaply as the Hot Rod amps. The DRRI uses a PCB and has just a little over half the power of a Hot Rod Deluxe, but nobody seems all that bothered that a DRRI costs hundreds of dollars more than an HRDx...because PCB construction and output power aren't the whole story.

I understand your point, but PCB designs are cheaper to manufacture than PTP. PCB amps are a bit harder to service Yadda, Yadda, Yadda.Hot Rod amps aren't even in the same league as the originals or even the reissues. As for construction on the Princeton goes, we'll see after it's released. Some guys say you can hear a difference between PCB and PTP, I can't. But for that much coin, I'll sink my money into a 5e3 clone and build it myself. My 6 watt Champ is one of my favorite amps.

[Totally bored]

My JCM 800 PCB Marshall from 1986 is still going strong.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Some guys say you can hear a difference between PCB and PTP, I can't.

Usually the difference between the two are better quality components in the hand-wired. They're much bigger than what goes in a PCB, too. I gather that's usually why the hand-wired amps sound better.

Theoretically, if you could get all those same components in a PCB amp it would sound as good, assuming it's the same design. I got much better sounds out of my HRD by upgrading a lot of parts in the signal chain.

But, yeah, for the money, there's a lot more amp one could get if they could build.

Which is why I will be watching the used market once it develops.

[stratcat55]

My JCM 800 PCB Marshall from 1986 is still going strong.

I have a 3 watt Pignose amp I bought in the early 70's that still works and I still use it, but my HRDlx took a dump in two months. It's all about design and quality components.

[boobtube21]

If they can sell DRRIs new at $950, I wouldn't be surprised if they can sell PRRIs at $800.

That puts it in perspective a little better than the Hot Rod analogy I guess.

Still kind of odd that you can buy a SF version which is more or less the exact same thing (only handwired) for the same money. Not that handwired sounds better, but it tends to have other benefits, especially if the PCB in question is poorly designed as it is in the HR series. Granted the SF is in a MDF cab I think.

I guess the same is true for SF Deluxes though, going for ~$900, when they are close enough to the BF's that you can pretty much have a handwired BF deluxe for a little more in parts and labor...with a silver control panel. Yet the DRRI's continue to fly off the shelves.

Oh well I guess whether or not an item sells at its price point determines its value, not a bunch of 's on an internet board.

[stratcat55]

They will probably sell tons of em. These consumer research guys do their homework and marketing will supply all the hype.

[Rickenjangle]

I just had a thought...for $800 I could have a friend build me a 5e3...and buy a SC XD to grab 'n' go for practice.

[djinn1973]

$799 is the street price?

[Marcondo]

$799 is the street price?

Yes

[stevefried]

It looks like there's more to the price of an amp (or a guitar for that matter) than the sum of its' parts.

[NeoFauve]

I can't recall the last time I saw a healthy PR for $800, not even late PF.

I suppose that's one advantage of buying a new, warrantied amp.

[elicross]

I guess the same is true for SF Deluxes though, going for ~$900, when they are close enough to the BF's that you can pretty much have a handwired BF deluxe for a little more in parts and labor...with a silver control panel. Yet the DRRI's continue to fly off the shelves.

Even assuming you can get a used SF PR for so much less than a new PRRI that you could refurbish and/or blackface it and still spend a lot less than $800, you have to keep in mind that there's a whole crowd of guys who don't want a 30- to 40-year-old amp -- no matter how well built it may have been when it was new. Nor do they want to spend the time and money to retube and recap it or to blackface it. A lot of players want to go into a store, try out an amp in person, and bring it home brand new with a warranty.

An $800 PRRI might not be so appealing to a person who likes the idea of buying a used amp and tinkering with it, or who has the skills (or a friend with the skills) to build his own homemade, hand-wired amp -- but those guys are in the minority in the real world, even if they're a significant presence on this board.

[Wilko]

depends on which number that "799" is. If it's MSRP, then street price would be substsantially lower. more like 500-600.

[Marcondo]

In this case the $799 is the street price not the list price. The list is somewhere in the $1100 range

I see SF PR's sell in the $600-1000 range and BF PR's sell in the $1200-1600 range.

[boobtube21]

An $800 PRRI might not be so appealing to a person who likes the idea of buying a used amp and tinkering with it, or who has the skills (or a friend with the skills) to build his own homemade, hand-wired amp -- but those guys are in the minority in the real world, even if they're a significant presence on this board.

Well, obviously, or GC and MF would be out of business, wouldn't they?

[Erock_Germany]

Do you think that once this PRRI is out we will have a new balance of power here.........fewer DRRI threads and more "other" things......

OK, I am heading for the hills. I think I started several myself......