I've heard the phrase that good lead guitar starts with good rhythm guitar. That's all well and good, but now I need to find out where good rhythm guitar starts.
Are there any specific artists or songs I should listen to for picking up ideas for good rhythm in a band (rather than solo) setting? I guess it varies between genres...I've been listening to quite a bit of Rory Gallagher in the past few months, I like the rhythm stuff he did on his first album.
i bet this really annoy's you if your a grammar freak.
Good rhythm guitar begins with knowing where the beat really is. Not just sort of, but PRECISELY where it is. So when you want to play behind the beat with a slow, loopy feel, or ahead of the beat with a tough, pushing feel, you can do it.
Knowing this by pure instinct is the source of all good musicianship, not just good lead playing. But it is essential to playing good solo guitar. When people say, "That guy says more with ONE NOTE blah blah blah?" That's what they're talking about. He knows exactly WHEN to play that one note.
A guy I use to play with always said "you can't be a good lead player until you're a good rhythm player" and I think that holds very true. And he was VERY good at both. He was one of those players who was fanatical about using his guitars volume AND tone knobs, especially when it was time for him to lay on the rhythm chores. Had a great sense of dynamics and used the tones that were needed for a particular song very well. Knew when it should be clean, semi dirty or screaming loud. And most important, he knew when NOT to play.
Some of the most cited rhythm folks are Townshend, Richards, Cropper.
Here's one that's not - Martin Rotsey of Midnight Oil.
Or was it Jim Moginie....Having never seen them live, I've got no idea.
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Cheers :)
I guess it's common knowledge that it's not always what you play, it's when you play it. Kind of reminds me of some songs like...um...Stairway To Heaven, for example. The solo in that...it took ages for me to get past the first bit, the descending notes. Just couldn't get the timing at all.
Oh, Sweet Little Angel by BB King is another...I must have spend a couple of hours getting the second small lead bit down. I still can't play it properly, just can't wrap my mind around the timing. Odd.
Anyway, I think I'm the first person to hijack my own thread...whythm thread, not lead.
i bet this really annoy's you if your a grammar freak.
One word:
METRONOME
While he's not known for it.....just listen to the rhythm tracks that Hendrix laid down.
Then Play On
To me good rhythm playing is essential for the foundation of a song.
Good timing; staying in time, on time chord changes, not slowing down or speeding up.
Dynamics; when to play soft, medium or hard, play with the band, not at the band. Watch and listen to other players while playing.
Space between notes; the space between notes or chords is as important as the notes or chords themselves, otherwise you just have mush.
Voicing; Using different chord voicings can add color to make a song more interesting, when called for.
Keeping a conscience mind to stay in time and tune with the Drummer and Bass player. Helps to keep the rhythm section tight, precise and sounding good.
These are all things I keep in mind and strive for when playing rhythm guitar. The better the sound= more fun and satisfaction.
Besides that ,reviewing a few basics never hurts (talking to myself)
BW
I was going to say the exact same thing. While I love Hendrix' solos, for me it's his rhythm parts that really show his genius as a guitarist. One thing I picked up from him was that he often treats the fretboard the way a pianist does the keyboard - splits it into three: bass, middle, treble. So he may be playing partial chords in the middle strings, a walking bassline on the lower strings, and stabs and lead flurries in the higher strings. The best example of this is probably "Little Wing", although most of his songs contain this technique, even the heavier stuff. Hard to perfect, but get it right and it can transform a mundane chord progression into something really interesting.Originally Posted by MMP
try some chilli peppers.
a rythm section totally changes the dynamic of the band.
it's like the wave that carries the song.
Imanidiot.
Jimmy Reed is the place to begin learning rhythm guitar. Keef, Pete and The Colonel are also important people to learn from, but another, rather unsung guy is Leo Nocentelli from the Meters. Guy has an exquisite right hand.Some of the most cited rhythm folks are Townshend, Richards, Cropper.
Here's one that's not - Martin Rotsey of Midnight Oil.
Or was it Jim Moginie....
A good set of ears, IMHO the key to being a good rhythm player is the ability to listen and react to what the other people you are playing with are doing. Plus actuall playing a "part" Steve Cropper is the king when it comes to this. It isn't just full chords, full on.
Remember! It is the indian, not the arrow! Although the arrow can help.
Scotty Moore, Hendrix, Danny Gatton, Ritchie Blackmore, SR & Jimmie Vaughan, Eric Johnson, Eddie Van Halen... all tremendous rhythm players.
I'm not a great guitarist by any means.
But I get asked enough by people..."I want to learn
to play lead guitar".
I always answer,
"You have to learn to play guitar first. Learn songs."
I always appreciated the way Robin Trower blended things together, from rhythm, to hook, to lead. And the songs stood on their own.
Good ears makes a good rhythym guitar player. combine that with the musicality of knowing when to push or pull the song and use dynamics and you have a winner.
Judicious use of the guitar's volume knob make a great rhythym player.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
I tend to refer to all playing as playing guitar. PLay the song. I don't like the terms "lead" and "rhythm". You might be soloing, but you are not leading anything, and rhythm comes from the bass and drums.
The "rhythm guitar" is playing the song. You play the hooks and most of the main supporting harmonies. Most of the time that means you'll be playing the defining parts of the chords. that can mean just a few notes here and there.
GJ covered the timing part, the other main part is not muddying up the mix with too many notes or tones.
Don't worry about bottom end thump. The bass has that covered. He's also got the root covered at all times. Your job is midrange. Melodies usually ride up a little higher and the voice and "lead" share that chore.
When you listen to some of the great listed already, what seem like interesting clever chords are really pretty simple and if you are thinking like I tried to explain, they are the logical result.
Say the chord is Gm. What is the bass player doing to make his G a minor? Likely nuthin' He's got the root (unless he's walking). What's the lead or singer doing that says minor? Nuthin'. They are playing/singing the root hard.
So who's playing that minor third or fifth of the chord? You are. The way a guitar is set up, many chord voicings will favor the fifth and third. that's you! those two notes are all you need. you want a touch more by adding the root note and you don't want to compete with the bass player? add your root on the top of the chord. Guess what you end up with? that's right...an inversion. pretty cool, eh?
Albert Collins!! Kick ass rhythms for me hes got it all...
I'm going to say, keeping abeat is most important. Besides that, for me playing the blues, it's getting into a groove. You know, a rhythm you can easily recognize, and is catchy. SRV's cold shot and the "Pride and joy" walking baseline are 2 I think of most. That and Clapton's crossroads, you KNOW what song it is.
It's all in the groove.
Thanks :) There's a lot to think about here, I'm gonna start with recording some bass and drum jam tracks to experiment over.
Thanks again everyone
i bet this really annoy's you if your a grammar freak.
Here's another 2 cents:
I read somewhere that there was a certain big band leader back in the day that thought the guitar should barely be heard at all.
He thought it should be just loud enough that it sounded like the drums were playing notes.
I always try to think of that when I play "rhythm". The "drums playing notes" part, not necessarily the volume part. OSA nailed the volume part with his volume knob comment.
That's where I start, then I try to come up with a little subtle "rhythm hook" to play. One that doesn't have to catch your ear, but if you consciously pay attention to it, you realize how integral it is to the song's style anyway.
WHat makes good rhythm guitar?
I do!
I'll be doin' it tonight in Pacific Beach!
I think what Gravity Jim says nails it.
I remember listening to "Last Child" by Aerosmith, when I first started playing in bands, and realized that the guitars were playing counter rhythms. Both parts were 'right' as timing goes, but were accenting different beats. The more I studied this, the more I heard it in other songs (a lot of Stones, for example). I also became very good at feeling the 'up beat' when many of my friends felt the 'down beat' naturally. Being able to feel my way around both made me a much better all around player.
"If you're cool, you don't know nothin' about it. It just is...or you ain't." - Keith Richards
I'm seeing more and more that they are not really two distinct things.
The best solos I play are rhythmically based. The worst ones are the ones that don't have a clear rhythm. Not bad notes in terms of tone, bad notes in terms of rhythm.
I'm a good rhythm player, but not the best lead player, I believe partly because I have made a distinction between the two in the past.
Rhythm is in the right hand. All the above advise is good and I agree. What you leave out is most important. I have the reputation of one to call for a fill in gig because I don't have to know your material. Listen to the Bass for the changes and the drummer for the relative feel, if another guitar or keys are in the band pay attention to what they play so you support it rather than cover it. Same with the vocals. Like others here, I don't subscribe to lead vs rhythm. There's chords, fills and solos and a complete guitarist uses them all, hopefully tastfully.
Just my 2 cents worth.
_____________________
Shut up and play yer guitar - Frank Zappa
I read an interview with Dave Grohl a while back. He said that coming from a drumming background he also treated the guitar like a drumkit: low bass notes over the bass drum and high stabs over the snare and brass. Even if you're not into Foo Fighters it's not easy to deny that Grohl is a fantastic rhythm guitarist and, whatever style you play in, thinking of the rhythm guitar as part of the RHYTHM SECTION is a very good place to start. Once you get the feel down, then you can start getting creative and combining rhythm and lead hooks together.
Last night I played all of my solos from a rhythmic based approach.
Just as I suspected, it was not the tone that screwed me up, it was the rhythm. When I missed a beat, the solo suffered. As long as I was right on the beat, I could damn near play any note I wanted to.
See Garcia, Jerry.
"No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim
One of the reasons that timing is so important for rhythm players is that one of the great tools of soloing is phrasing. Basically that means actually NOT playing every note "in time" but dancing around the rhythm, pushing and pulling the feeling. If you are trying to dance around the rhythm, and it's changing, you can't hit the moving target.
I just saw a band called The Pimps Of Joytime.
Sweet, greazy funk / Latin soul the way you dreamed it could sound.
My head spins just thinking about the guitar player. Not because what he played was so technically advanced, or his tone, but because he was always so deeply in the groove.
Each solo he took was an example of great rhythm playing.
Lots of great live stuff on Youtube.
His solo on "Street Sound" is an example of what I'm taliking about. Hard to describe, but when you hear it...
Some kinda' as yet unaknowledged masterpiece.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
or Ribot, Mark
Yup, or the left, if you're left-handed. Rhythm is so much more important than soloing. Any clown can be an undisciplined wanker ahd do 64th notes...show me someone who can play rhythm like Steve Cropper or Leo Nocentelli and I'll shot you a shit-hot guitarist.
Find yourself a sloppy drummer, your rhythm will improve dramatically (been there myself)
Hmmm, my experience is try to play some slow soul/r&b, I think slow stuff is much harder to nail. And you ought to find yourself a band, by listening to your band mates, you'll have much better ear, that will make you a steady player, and will be able to play speeding up or slowing down.
IMHO, beyond the basics of not overpowering the song, being on time, etc. - it is counterpoint; using portions of chords and different voicings, as well as hammer-ons, pull-offs and slides, etc. IF the bass player is spot on, then the rhythmn guitarist can move beyond the root and concentrate on the color and harmonic possiblities as well as percussive effects. Like the right hand of a great jazz piano player. If you listen to the really good big band jazz guitarists, that is what they are trying to emulate - the right hand of the keys guy. You can use this same approach in rock music. The chords will just be more majors, minors, sevenths and ninths - fewer major/minor sevenths, sixths and elevenths, etc.
I think what makes good rhythm guitar is a good knowledge of chords, and a great sense of rhythm timing...
Lionel
www.soundclick.com/demioblue
Not known for his rythmn playing??!?If he never played lead, I'd still think he was god. He plays rythmn guitar better than anyone. God I miss him still....
CT.
Yep. As wild as Jimi was, it was all about the (in his case) left hand.
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
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