Has anyone here played the new hand-wired Tweed Twin? I am thinking that after all my recent amp experiments, I may be a tweed guy after all. I think I am looking for an amp with the tweed breakup, but with a reasonable amount of headroom. I saw a vid of Clapton the other night and I just loved his tone. I am pretty sure he was going through a tweed Twin. Any of you have any experience with this amp?
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
I have a Victoria low powered tweed Twin. You have to play this thing mighty loud to get it to sound that good. It will sound very good, but I couldn't play it unless the room was pretty big. I haven't gigged in a few years, and this critter is much to loud to be used at home.
I also have a Victoria tweed Deluxe, which is probably my all-time favorite amp. I gigged with this amp many times. It's fine as long as you get it off the floor. If I were gigging, today, I would find a Victoria Double Deluxe. To me, that would be perfect.
Were you watching some recent footage of Clapton? The Cream Reunion shows were exclusively a Twin. Of course, he was playing venues where you can turn that Twin up all the way.
I've seen him using a Woody Pro in the Crossroads DVDs, too. The Tweed Pro (5E5A) is pretty close to the Twin, too, but it's only around 40Watts and one speaker, so it would work when you're not playing, say, Madison Square Garden.
Tweeeeed...
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
I was referring specifically to the Fender 57 Twin RI, but I am definitely open to suggestion. I am looking for something that gives me not only that sweet tweed breakup, but also the kind of feedback that lets the note just hang in the air for as long as you want. Can I get that from a Double Deluxe? What about a Deluxe or is it just too small?
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
I ws referring to the '57 Twin RI also. Clapton's were built for him by Fender before there were RIs available, but they're the same model.Originally Posted by Doc W
I can't vouch for the Double Deluxe, or the Deluxe, but they're going to be dirtier than the Pro (5E5A) or Twin (5E8A).
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
NT, you posted while I was typing my response to Jim, so yes, I realize you were referring to the 57 RI. It is also 40 watts, according to Fender, but I am wondering how loud it has to go before one gets that tweed breakup.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
If you do not use alot of pre gain, than it takes alot of acoustic volume to get those notes on the edge of feedback whenever you deside to make it scream, and something like a 15 watt amp with 1 12 just will not do it unless your in a small hard surface room.
The Victoria low powered Twin is essentially the same as the Fender '57. The original Fender came with two rectifier tubes, and the Fender '57 has the same. The Vickie substitutes a single rectifier tube. The Vickie also has adjustable bias. I'm not sure if the original had that, or if the Fender '57 has it.
The Fender '57 should have the same power output that the Vickie low power Twin has. I test drove a Fender '57, once. I did not have the opportunity to crank it, but at the volume I was able to play, it behaved very similar to the Vickie. (I suspect at higher volumes, I might have been able to hear the difference between the two rectifier approaches.)
I gig with a tweed deluxe. I have no problem being heard.
CJ, tell me more. I have a lot of questions.
I am guessing that the drummer is not an animal and that you play at relatively low stage volumes. I like to play with the amp fairly hot, just on the edge of feedback, rolling back the volume a bit on the guitar until I need it, and I really like an amp that is very touch-sensitive. How much clean headroom do you have? Do you get the amp up off the floor? Can you get that sweet feedback with a Strat (or, at least, single coils) and the Deluxe?
Is your Deluxe vintage (in which case it is outa my league!)? How does it compare to blackface or silverface Deluxes? I CAN afford a SF Deluxe but I really love that tweed breakup, which may mean I have to take the boutique route.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
You could get any number of 5E3 Tweed Deluxe kits, have it built and still come out ahead in comparison to vintage prices, and you'll have the flexibility o choosing certain components to fit your needs.
Weber also makes a 5E3P kit which is a 40-Watt version of the 5E3. I mentioned this before, but I'm building that kit for a guitar student here in the DFW area, so I can get you some initial impressions of that route when I get a chance to fire it up.
I can compare it to my 40W Tweed Pro (built into a Hot Rod Deluxe), and let you know if it's cleaner or dirtier.
The 5E3P is in the same size chassis and cabinet as the 5E3, too. Here it is before the iron was wired up. Note the size of the output transformer:
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
NT, thanks for this! a 40W Deluxe sounds really intriguing. I shied away from kits because as most of you know, I am a real novice with this sort of thing. I am planning to build a Champ from a kit - maybe. Anyway, you are right, why not get the kit and get someone else to put it together? Or perhaps, have someone experienced help me build it?
If I had a car, I would drive right over to hear it. It's only 1700 miles. Maybe you can play it for me over the phone.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
A 40-watt 5e3P should be pretty close in volume and headroom to the low powered Tweed Twin - just with one instead of 2 speakers. I'd think a 5e3x2 double Deluxe would provide a better balance between headroom and breakup, at 30 watts...
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Well, the Tweed Twin does have a negative feedback adding to the clean, and both of the other amps mentioned don't.
There's an extra gain stage on the Twin, too, compared to the 5E3, plus there's the choke in the Twin, too. Those all will help clean it up some for the Twin/Pro amps, but this 5E3P should be cleaner than the 5E3.
Oh, one other thing, the 5E3P includes fixed bias, but the circuitboard doesn't have the extra eyelet terminals for the added components for some reason. In this particular build, the owner decided to bring it back to cathode bias as in the 5E3.
As I said, I'll know more when I get the replacement switches in and installed.
"...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."
-Edmund Burke
I gig a 5e3 Weber kit, and that sucker is loud. I do try to go for low stage volume, but this amp has no problem keeping up with a drummer (even if they're an animal bangin the skins). One of my issues with the 5e3 was that it was too loud (to get that tweed breakup at a low stage volume).
For the particulars, I put the amp on a stand, mic it to the FOH, and control the clean vs dirt with the volume knob on the guitar as well as guitar choice. Single coils hit the amp just hard enough for a nice crunch (with no additional pedals) and humbuckers are difficult to tame down to a really nice clean. The volume of the amp remains relatively the same once you're past 3 or 4 on the knob, and once to that point the guitars volume controls begin to function as a variable distortion (or gain knob). So after setting the amp, the guitar becomes everything you'd normally want a pedal for with respect to gain.
I've recently taken to turning my amp around to face the back of the stage (still with the mic in front of the speaker), as this allows me to get the amp up to the sweet spot, and still not beam someone in the audience. It works out well for me this way, and I've returned to a more traditional tube configuration than what I had been using.
I can imagine that the 5e3 wouldn't be loud enough in a big room without a mic, but the way we run things in my band I couldn't imagine having anything more powerfull and still be able to contain it. 40 Watts of Fender Tweed would blow the roof off.
As to how the 5e3 compares to the BF and SF Deluxes, it doesn't. Not even in the remotest sense. That BF (or SF) sound is every bit as iconic as the tweed sound, but they are completely different sounds. You'll probably need both if you want or need both sounds. I'm currently playing stuff that is heavily based on the tweed sounds, so everything's cool.
POO DAT!!!
I played the Tweed Twin Fender is offering now. Lots of coin for an amp but it is nice. I tried it in a storewith a sound proofed room so I could go for the gusto.......
You can crank it - it is rated at 40 watts but it feels like more. It has a very full and rich sound and breaks up nicely and real smooth - I think the dual rectifiers do have a function here.
The 12 inch speakers make it boomier than a Bassman LTD and the overall amp simply has a fantastic tone. Great lows, nice mids and the highs can be controlled well with the presence. This is the 5E8-A circuit and although it is quite different from the Bassman which is the 5F6-A circuit the heritage is there and cranked you see where the original Marshalls come from - it has that vibe and it goes from clean to dirt in a fantastic way!
It starts very clean and it got dirty with a Strat cranked and the amp at about 5 (it goes to 12 - better than the 11 on the Spinal Tap amps, in'it) and of course earlier with a Lester but it sounded great with both. I did not try a Tele but I am sure it would really shine....
It was not ear splitting loud like a Twin Reverb but iffin y'all have neighbours and your guitar room is not in the basement and soundproffed, they WILL hear you when it is cranked. I have the luxury of a well padded basement and some room between the neighbours (I crank a Super Reverb from time to time)
Since you are on the US shores, you have a great deal more to chose in Tweed Clones.....Victoria being one. They make nice stuff. I am currently looking at a Dutch manufacturer called Marble as they are more affordable here till not 100% Tweed in that sense. The Twin would be in the same price as Victoria here and I do have a head to support the company that Leo founded. Afterall, it is not owned by CBS anymore and they have made a cool company out of it....
Lots of guys in TFF say build it.....I do not have the time or know how to do this. I build other things and am slow with the soldering iron.....
It is a wonderful sounding amplifier. Headroom is great and when it breaks up it is so smooth and crisp - perfect for a Strat and Tele and that is what Uncle Leo had in mind. It is an amp to seriously consider.
"Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House
Ever try Fender's "Bass Breaker"? Tha's a tweedie Bassman re-issue, with a pair of Celestion 12s instead of the more common 4x10 configuration. Nice amp fer sure -- has a more versatile tone stack than the Twin Amp. Prolly half the $$$ as well.
This is the Deluxe, Bad Bob, and Tele. Everyone else was in the PA, I wasn't. It's from a couple of years ago... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9VfK1XkHLs
My Teed Deluxe kit is on order so I can't speak to the amount of headroom it has. I have heard, however that the volume controls for the two channels are very interactive and you can influence where breakup occurs by the position of these two controls. I have built and still have a 5C1 Champ 600, 5F2A Princeton and 5F6A Bassman and I have to say I love the "Tweed" tone. You do need the correct amp, power output + speaker configuration, to get the tone you want for a given venue. Where I normally jam the Princeton isn't enough to cut through for leads and the Bassman is way to much. That is why I'm adding to the herd with the Deluxe. At home both the Champ and Princeton are great.
This company here in Europe out of the Netherlands makes a handwired Tweed based on a 59 Bassman with 2 Celestion G12H (UK version) and to boot they integrate a 3 knob tube reverb. I am aiming to play one next week. This sounds really cool but all good things come at a price.....
The company is Called Marble Amps.
"Sorry" - John Belushi as he smashed a guitar in Animal House
I saw one of those on E-ville bay a while back, Erock. Very kewl -- but very pricey......too high for this kid. But the Doc prolly makes six figures tuckin' tummies an' hoisting droopy hooters -- he's good for it.
CJ, I tried the tweed Deluxe RI this morning and it was only 15 watts (5E3 if recall). There is no way it would have been heard in a serious live situation. Is that a blackface DRRI you are playing in the vid?
Anyway, folks, as it turns out, the sound I was after is not just the tweed Twin, but the active electronics that Clapton uses (I think). See my other thread on this in the Strat forum.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
CJ's is exactly the same as the Fender.
His has an Eminence Red Fang instead of the sucky Jensen RI.
Mine has a Weber 12F150 and can always be heard live unmiked.
I built and played a 5E8 for a short while, also a 5E5, a 5F4 and a few 5E3. All are gig-able depending upon your situation. The 5E3 was not for me personally, as we play really loud semi-psychedelic rock. My favorite of all the amps was the 5F4. Certain 10 inch speakers just seemed to tighten it up just right. The only 'problem' (from my point of view - YMMV) with tweed amps is if you have to have various sounds on tap you kinda have to re-do your whole pedal board from a BF style one. E.g., my Rat sounded great with the BF amps but terrible with the tweeds. Blues Driver and other more transparent type ODs actually worked better with the tweeds though. OTOH, IMHO you just can't get that sweet tweed OD anywhere else. One of these days I'll probably build another 28-30 watt 5F4 and put a single large magnet 12 inch alnico in it, like a Emi Fang, Tone Tubby, Cele Gold whatever. That (5F4) is the one to build IMHO.
ps - oh yeah, I think Jeff beck is currently playing through tweed tweed twins in stereo...
No, it's a tweed deluxe. Unless you're playing metal, it'll fit the bill.
Hey Phantom, I am not a medical doctor, just a Phd (but remember, even rectal thermometers have degrees!). So, no huge income. My academic friends refer to me as the guitar player and my guitar player friends call me Doc, as a bit of a joke.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
CJ, I don't play metal, and all I can say is that the tweed Fender Deluxe RI I played this morning was 15 watts and had very little head room. You must know some really gentle drummers.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
A TDRI should be as loud as a DRRI and as loud as a Blues Jr. From what I've heard you set the normal channel volume to the level that you want from the amp and then if you turn the other channels volume up it will clean up somewhat.
Things - small tweaks - can be done to improve the headroom: tube and speaker swaps, jumpering, etc. Not sure about the Fender reissue, but the ones I made were pretty loud. I once played a small outdoor party where it was me w/ my 5E3 and a '72 Tele Thinline up against two other guitarists playing Marshall stacks with pedals, etc. We ended up all playing together on 'Red House.' Some young guy came up to me afterwards and said "you sounded great man, but you were really too loud - I couldn't hear the other guitarists..." Boy that gave me an ear to ear grin. But, even with a loud 5E3 I ran into headroom trouble when I got with some really loud guys that always play outdoors, but hey you can always mic right? Certainly it is loud enough to hear yourself on stage...
PHD......Piled Higher & Deeper?
I have been playing on stage since the mid 60s (with a few short hiatuses here and there). I started with a blackface Bassman, played through a few Marshalls, and wound up with a 40 watt Concert (a few other little odd ones along the way). As I have said before, I am only beginning to understand the electronics, but I have more than enough experience to know when an amp doesn't have the balls to cut it in a decent-sized room, and this Deluxe I played this morning doesn't. But let's make sure we are all referring to the same thing.
I am talking about the 57 Deluxe Custom amp. It is 12 watts and a really really nice amp - gorgeous breakup, like honey. It just would not have the volume and headroom for the kinds of gigs I played and hope to be playing again soon. The blackface DRRI is 22 watts and would most certainly be loud enough for most gigs, but would also have trouble in an outdoor setting if the band overall was at the loud end of the scale.
Some of the boutique "Deluxes" I played, all in the 25 watt range, were also quite beefy enough for the kind of work I do, although the drummers would have to be a little bit sensitive to the lower volume.
I suggest everyone go to the local shop and play through the 12 watt Custom Deluxe. It is a sweet amp, but for small gigs.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
What about if'n you had a DRRI an' miked it for the outdoor gigs, Doc? A decent PA should give it the punch it needs.
For me the 'squish' was a bigger problem than volume. Probably the ultimate grab and carry portable all round gig amp is a BF Deluxe w/ SS recto, eff spkr and 6L6s.
Perhaps the 5e3's not for you, and that's cool too. I haven't tried the reissue, but the Weber speaker in mine makes it a loud amp. Increasing the clean headroom is as easy as changing the first preamp tube to a 12ay7 (but it's even louder before you reach the sweet gain tones), and adding a 4x12 cab for outdoor gigs make the thing louder than you could reasonably get away with inside of a club (else the bartender won't be able to hear the drink orders).
I also rather like the blackface circuits, and I can see a DRRI in my future. For the same reasons as the 5e3, loud enough to be heard, small enough to not be obnoxiously loud, portable yet easily augmented with external cab if needed.
POO DAT!!!
Doc, I can't think of a time when Crossfyre played outside and I couldn't hear OSA loud and clear from the other side of the stage - and that's without him being in the monitors. Heck, half the time we play, we don't need to put him (or me, with an AC15) in the mains either.
I remember a TFF jam we hosted here in Rochester - one of the guys from Pittsburgh area (I think) came up for the event, bringing his newly-built 5e3, which he proceeded to dime. It drowned out everything in the room. Everything. Sounded great, and retained a nice bite and clarity with a Tele.
If the 5e3 ain't your bag, then go for the DRRI. It's a gas, gas, gas...
P.S. OSA is Offshore Angler, a fellow TFF'er and the Rochester area master of the telecaster...
"I'm gonna find myself a girl
that can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams..."
Rick, maybe there are home-built 5E3's that are different. I have confessed many times I don't know the technology. As others have said, maybe it is a combination of tube and speaker quality. So I can't comment on this guy's 5E3, but I can tell you that the 12 watt tweed Fender Deluxe RI would have been totally covered by the tweed Fender Twin RI. I had them both in front of me, in the same room and was going back and forth. If I played that Twin at the level I liked, just where it really started to honk, you would have barely heard the Deluxe. Go try it. Find out for yourself.
There seems to be a lot of love for 5E3 amps but loving the Deluxe RI won't make it any louder.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
I'm kinda with you on this Doc, but seriously my 5E3 sounded like it was TWICE as loud with the Emi Fang (103db @ 1m) in it...
It's the speaker. The RI uses a Jensen P12Q which I'm really not a fan of.
Like Gris my 5E3 was a ton louder when I switched the original speaker (a great sounding 12A125) for a Weber 12F150.
Tommy.
Gris and zeiss, this is good to know. I loved the sound of that Deluxe but just couldn't imagine playing through it with a drummer. I really want to learn how to build and amp and the Deluxe is definitely one I would love to try.
While we are on the subject of speakers, I have a plan to make my silverface Super a little quieter and a lot more portable. I was thinking of taking the amp out of the current cabinet, putting it into a head, and building a 2x10 cabinet (or perhaps just putting two speakers in the current Super cabinet). This is based on the theory that two 10's won't be as loud as four 10's, and based on the reality that two speakers are a lot lighter than four. Does this make any sense or am I, once again, misunderstanding the whole thing? Also, the Super takes two 6L6GC. Are there tubes that will work in this amp, but make it just a little quieter?
I really like the sound of my sf Super but fear that it might be just a tad loud. Geez, I'm fussy. I think that happens when you get old.
"The beauty and profundity of God is more real than any mere calculation."
The Super is 40 watts, and wants to see a 2 ohm load, so it's gonna be loud but fewer speakers will tame it somewhat. Just be carefull that the speakers you use will provide the 2 ohm load. Removing two of the existing speakers won't work, because the load rating will change.
POO DAT!!!
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