Amp planning...

[curtisstetka]

Not too long ago my ass-kickingly awesome girlfriend got me a Les Paul Standard. Up to then I'd been a "Fender Guy". Oh sure, here and there over the years I'd had a humbucker-equipped guitar but I'd say the last decade or so I've gravitated to the Tele and Strat sounds.

Subsequently, my amps and pedals have all been sort of geared toward single coil pickups.I'm not saying I don't love the Les Paul, because I do but last night I brought out my Strat and plugged it into my pedalboard and 5E3. Ahhhhh....

With the Les Paul it almost seems like I have to fight it to get an adequate sound. For instance, my overdrive pedal is a Fulldrive II. It's JUST RIGHT with the Strat and sounds lousy with the Les Paul. Same with my amps. The Les Paul almost seems to push the rest of the chain too hard, if that makes any sense.


Right now I have three amps:

Clark 5E3 clone - This covers my smaller, slightly raunchy amp needs. It sounds so good with the Fender guitars. Sounds not so good with the Gibson.

Twin reissue with the single 15" speaker - TJ's working on this right now, rebuilding its guts. I figure this will be my Gold Standard amp for clean blackface tone.

Gibson BR6 - This thing is from the late 40s, early 50s? I got this earlier this year. It works, but something is definitely amiss in there. I imagine it needs a pretty total rehaul and perhaps new tubes. Still, there's some sweet clean tone in there. Like the 5E3, the Les Paul drives this amp too hard.


So what's the next amp?

[Don]

The key to getting great tone from a Les Paul (for me, anyway) is to turn down the guitar's volume. This required re-wiring the guitar slightly to the '50s wiring scheme for the best result.

Also, on my 5E3 clone, changing the first filter cap to 30uF (or adding another 16uF in parallel with the existing one) made the texture of the driven sound much more humbucker compatible without taking away from great single coil tone.

My Les Paul sounds great with my 5E3 clone!

The Twin and the Les Paul should be great!

[Mesotech]

I have nearly the same issue with my LP's and my 5e3. They drive that amp really hard. Turning down the guitar's volume really helps, but it is a challange to spin the knobs exactly back where you want them after a quick solo adjustment.

The solution to your problem is easy. Tell the girlfriend that the new Les Paul dictates that you must now have a Marshall amp to go with it.

See? Easy!

[NTBluesGuitar]

Twin reissue with the single 15" speaker - TJ's working on this right now, rebuilding its guts...

So what's the next amp?

Ahh yes...about to put the drill to the G10 for yours. I tightened and re-did all the heaters and have the amp gutted and awaiting the circuit board before the solder hits it. Meant to send you a note about all that.

Next amp? You've got the Tweed and BF covered...so...I'm thinking something in a Blonde Fender. A Blonde Bassman perhaps (aka Brian Setzer Bassman)?

But yeah, why not a Marshall? 18Watt!

[steve25]

The blue guitar site has a wiring layout for his Frankenstrat that has 2 humbuckers, in that mod he has a mid range dropping choke and switch( nothing more than a small audio output transformer) that will solve your LPs problem of having a much higher level mids then the Fenders, and you have plenty of room in the LPs boiler room for the mod and it can be trimed to your liking for how much mid drop and where in the mid range it happens. this way you do not have to touch the amp.
I did this mod in my Humbucker fitted fender and its a nice thing to have, if you do like I did and replace one of your LPs volume controls for one that has a push pull switch on it you will not have to drill any holes to be able to cut the mid kill in and out.

[curtisstetka]

Thanks, fellows. I have learned that the LP sounds best with the volumes dialed back.

I'm reluctant to alter the LP's electronics. While I relish diving into my Fenders to screw with their guts, this particular Les Paul has some funny-looking circuit board in there. I'd have to take it all out and put all new stuff in there. Besides the cost of replacement, the controls it currently has sound great and feel great. I'm not one to fix something that not's broken. Also, I doubt the girlfriend would completely understand it if I were to take the Les Paul under the soldering iron. She's a very rational, reasonable girl but I could completely understand her getting a little hurt if I were in the position of buying someone something very nice and very expensive, then seeing them tear it apart.

The 18 watt Marshall is a possibility. I also am interested in the Egnator thing that switches between EL84 and 6L6 power tubes. Somebody posted a review on here recently and it sounded pretty cool.

I guess I need to take the Les Paul out and try some amps.

[Don]

Is this a 2008 Les Paul Standard? They've got a funky board in there!

I don't mention it here often because I know that folks are mostly into pretty straight forward amps, but I love the sound of my Les Paul through my MESA/Boogie. The clean and dirty sounds are great and the reverb is amazing!

[curtisstetka]

Yes, it's a 2008. I had my doubts about that silly thing in there but, seriously, the controls on it just feel sooooo smooth. I wouldn't change a thing about them.

I used to have a Boogie Mark II. Too many knobs. It had some good sounds in there but I am not one to spend a bunch of time trying to set up my amp. I prefer simplicity.

[dirtdog]

The solution to your problem is easy. Tell the girlfriend that the new Les Paul dictates that you must now have a Marshall amp to go with it.

See? Easy!

1974x

[ziess]

5E7!

[jeru]

I don't mention it here often because I know that folks are mostly into pretty straight forward amps, but I love the sound of my Les Paul through my MESA/Boogie. The clean and dirty sounds are great and the reverb is amazing!

I hear you there, don. I have a newer mesa as well. I only gig maybe 5-6 times a year, and the Mesa's my go-to for gigs.

Signed,

[Don]

I used to have a Boogie Mark II. Too many knobs. It had some good sounds in there but I am not one to spend a bunch of time trying to set up my amp. I prefer simplicity.

I can understand that. My Boogie has a lot of knobs. It's surprisingly straightforward though, the closest thing that I have to a "grab and go" amp.

[Erock_Germany]

Turn down the volume and play with the tone on the LP, use input 2 on Blackface channels. I use a FD 2 . FD 2 volume about 10 o'clock, Tone at 12 o'clock and overdrive between 9 and 1 o'clock depending on how much dirt you want........rock'n'roll at its best. I use a DRRI but I am sure it will be similar on the Twin.

On the BF amps, I get the best sound with the tone pots down a bit (between 2 and 5) because they are really interactive with the volume and overall color plus a LP hits the front of the amp big time.

Now play a little with the LP volume in these settings (with FD on and off) and you go from bluesy to clean to hard rock distortion. No need for a Marshall..........but if the wife say OK to a new amp, low powered Marshalls are the tits........that is my next toy

[Kap'n]

My current favorite rig(s) for my recent (2005) LP are blackface style amps, with an OCD when I need gain.

A 5E7 sounds nice too.

I've got love/hate going on with classic Marshall circuits. It's all in my frame of mind, I guess.

[curtisstetka]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, I'm excited to have the reborn Twin back at Chez Stetka (take your time, TJ). The 5E3 is just better suited to the Strat and Tele, it seems.

I realize it's a learning process too. I am just so accustomed to the lower output single coil pickups. It's fun, really. I'm getting a kick out of the Les Paul and I'm trying NOT to force it into my comfort zone but rather, expand that zone to include what the LP does best.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, I'm excited to have the reborn Twin back at Chez Stetka (take your time, TJ).

Well, the other job that was sharing time with the Twin got finished last night, so now the Twin can get the TLC it deserves.

[Gris]

What power and particularly what pre-amp tubes are you running in your 5E3? Speaker also?

We have gotten GREAT Les Paul sounds out of some of the 5E3s we've built, but only with certain tube and speaker combinations.

[Don]

I can vouch for that!

[NeoFauve]

When I got the Prince G, I was knocked out by how good my single-coil guitars sounded through it. Effortless.
It dawned on me a week or so later that I hadn't plugged my Bluesbird into it. When I did, I was disappointed. It made it sound really farty.
Backing off the volume cleans it up, but I found that opening up the tone (on the amp) to about 7 or 8 is the ticket.
I can push the amp without the bottom getting all stinky.

This is different from a 5E3 though, and it has a10" rather than a 12", and I should mention that I m not looking for LP/Marshall type grind.

Curtis- I'll bet that LP will sound incredible through the Twin.
I love HB's through a clean, almost hi-fi, 15" sound.

[Doc W]

I have to disagree about turning down the LP. In my experience, rolling back the volume has a really negative effect on humbuckers. They lose tone and presence pretty quickly.

I always played live with my Gibson 345 and Les Paul all the way up, through a Marshall. Although I like humbuckers, they are, in my opinion, not nearly as versatile as single coils, particularly the Strat setup. The one thing that they DO have is a much greater capacity to overdrive the amp in ways that SC pups just can't. When I play my Strat through my silverface Super, I have to turn it up to about 7 to start to get a nice overdrive. With my 345, it starts to honk at about 4.

I guess everyone has their different tastes. When I read of Neo's love for a clean, hi-fi LP sound through a Twin, I almost went for the ear plugs! But then, I play my Strat through the Super with the bright switch on and all the younger guys wince (I guess I played too loud for too many years - kinda lost the high end in my ears).

[ziess]

Although I like humbuckers... The one thing that they DO have is a much greater capacity to overdrive the amp in ways that SC pups just can't.

Might I suggest you try a Gretsch Duo Jet with Dynas.

[CJ Neel]

Try this with the LP and 5e3: Plug into the #2 input. Turn the unused channel up to 12. Turn the used channel up to about 3, and the tone at around seven. Dial the unused channel back to 10 or 9 for more grind if needed.

[Doc W]

Might I suggest you try a Gretsch Duo Jet with Dynas.

Zeiss is dead right. Right after I posted I realized that I was talking Gibson/Fender pups. Gretsch are just not the same.

[Gris]

The starting point is what is in your pre-amp: AX, AT, AY, AU...? Tweaking the volume/tone controls and jumpering/blending channels helps too as Chris said. Remember those controls act as gain enhancers. An efficient, loud, clean speaker helps a little too. Maybe Chris' gain reduction mod too.

[curtisstetka]

Okey dokey, guys. It's a Clark 5E3 clone. I haven't messed with any of the tubes. Here's what it's got, left to right:

Philips 5Y3NGTA
Tung-Sol 6V6GT (pair of those)
Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH
Electro-Harmonix 6072A/12AY7EH

The speaker says "Weber Classic AlNiCo" on it.

[Don]

My Les Paul would probably sound really good through that.

You might have hotter pickups than me. Mine has Seth Lovers which are pretty low powered.

Or maybe you're just not used to the sound of a Les Paul. It took me a long time to appreciate Les Pauls.

Using the volume controls really was the key for me. You're only getting part of a guitar if you don't use them. A Les Paul has a lot of cool clean and dirty tones hidden in it once you learn how to tap them all.

[Gris]

Well, the tubes are OK. Try Chris' jumpering trick. FWIW, I always played my 5E3s jumpered, much more tones on tap that way - sounds fuller too.

[yankeerob]

Also, on my 5E3 clone, changing the first filter cap to 30uF (or adding another 16uF in parallel with the existing one) made the texture of the driven sound much more humbucker compatible without taking away from great single coil tone.

I've done something similar on the 5E3 that I've bastardised with a 5AR4 and 6n3c's (19W Russky mil spec 5881's) - I've a 47uF in the 1st filter stage but may roll it back a bit - (waiting on the guys at F&T to give our UK distributor the price info we've requested) - I haven't got a Lester but it's more to do with HB's - I've got a 8.5K bridge and 7K neck (handwound Bulldogs) on the Italocaster and it doesn't sound that great through the straight 5E3 (the Fenders do sound better through that) but it really screams through that other amp - mind you I have a TBX tone control on it - some hate 'em but I like 'em for guitars with HB's... the extra smoothing on the amp is stiffening up the power and the result is less bottom and more krang but it still has the classic Fender voicing - Kap posted the circuit a few mos ago and I've been working on it between rebuilds and repairs - I think it's worth the effort as I like the straight 5E3 as it is - a classic circuit and sound - but also like it's brash - if a bit steroidal - half brother - I'm not surprised the Kap blew that Weber Dlx OT - I'm using a 6K6 OT that I've had wound and it's not a bad match as far as I can make out - the plates are running at about 300V or so and it's got a 'right in your face' kind of response that's more rock than blues... 19W RMS and all the rest after that - in fact I don't need to turn it past around 11 o'clock on the vols and want to wire 'em so that's the max... I jam with a guy who's got a coupla Lesters and a Cornell 18W Plexi - this thing seriously kicks it's @rse...

[Kap'n]

Try Chris' jumpering trick.

Not a jumpering trick. Chris is just suggesting manipulating the unused volume control for it's volume/tonal alterations.

[Don]

I spent some time getting different sounds out of my 5E3 clone last night using my Les Paul and my ES-135 with humbuckers.

Using the controls as Chris suggested, I was able to get good cleans out of either guitar even with the guitar's volume cranked. It was jazzy smooth if I turned the guitars volume down to about 8 and their tones down a bit, but not very loud.

Turning down the un-used channel, the amp grinds like a rock and roll orchestra with either guitar, a little more with the ES-135 (the '57 Classic pickups are a little hotter than the Seth Lovers in the Les Paul), especially if I wiggle the guitar's Bigsby a little.
It's a big sound. Distorted but more low-fi than a cascading gain master volume amp or an overdrive pedal. It's also a lot richer than a cascading gain master volume amp or an overdrive pedal.

Backing off either guitar's volume, I can get cleaner bluesy sounds, even cleaner rockabilly sounds and very clean jazzy sounds (though the clean-cleans are better using Chris' method).

All the good sounds are there, though my 5E3 clone won't get as dirty as the tweed Deluxe that Larry Carlton plays the opening chord to "Won't Take Me Alive" on his "Steely Dan rig" video on his website. That's probably due to the 12AY7 in mine. The tube is my favorite of mine but has begun to get a bit microphonic.

[Rickenjangle]

I briefly tried out Fender's 5e3 reissue - and wasn't all that blown away. Especially for the price...though I didn't try the knob trick. I dunno if that amp would work for me - and it didn't seem very loud at all.