Helter Skelter "Theory" question

[tugboat]

So I'm trying to learn some theory so I can actually understand songs and not just regurgitate tabs. I randomly decided to pick apart Helter Skelter. Correct me if I'm wrong:

It's in the key of E, 1-3-4 chord progression, with riffing and the (really short, weird) solo in the F# Phyrgian mode. Am I correct?

[Offshore Angler]

It is what it is. It's really more about the extreme bend than scale position, I'd say its in E pentatonic if anything. If you listen to the U2 version it's a little more accessible.

It's only using the G chord on the intro. After that it hangs in E with a G slash ... if you want to write it as a chord. If you stack fifths it really doesn't matter, and that's where the major/minor ambiguity comes from. No wonder U2 covered it, it's very much in their style.

[Rickenjangle]

The Beatles are an interesting group when you pick 'em apart.

I get the impression that sometimes (esp. toward the earlier years) they had no idea what they were doing, and just found the sounds they did by trial and error.

I'm working on Back in the USSR now and those little phrases between lines in the chorus (the lick that outlines the chord with the little hammer-on at the end) were maddening until I figured out what the bloody wankers were doing. :)

[tugboat]

I haven't picked apart the solo yet (I've played it but haven't "analyzed" it yet) but the riffing during the chorus I tracked down to F# Phyrgian (aka the D major scale, correct me if i'm wrong). Of course, it could be just like you all said and they just randomly stumbled upon some notes that worked. After all, this was the 60's...

And what's a stacked 5th?

I play those lines in the chorus of Back in the USSR by sliding up the neck and playing over bar chords in A, C, and D, starting the phrase by playing the root note and going straigt to the high E and B strings. I've seen it done over the standard open chords too though.

[Rickenjangle]

I think Stacked Fifths is that ever-popular root-fifth power chord, 'cause there is no major or minor there.

'Cause if you stack a root and a fifth with another fifth above that you're playing some kind of 9 chord, I think.

[tugboat]

I think Stacked Fifths is that ever-popular root-fifth power chord, 'cause there is no major or minor there.

'Cause if you stack a root and a fifth with another fifth above that you're playing some kind of 9 chord, I think.

Fifth meaning the 5th note in the scale of the key the song is in? So, if the song is in the key of C, a stacked 5th is a G chord with a C stuck in there?

[Kap'n]

In general terms, note a fifth above is seven half-steps above the one in question.

For A, a fifth above is E.

Six half-steps would be a diminished fifth. Eight would be an augmented fifth.

Note - this really depends on where you are in a scale/key. But it's what most people think of.

[Rickenjangle]

What the Kap'n said.

I was referring to any chord made up of a root and its fifth.

In the key of C, for example, the C5 chord is C and the G above it. You could fatten the chord up by also playing the G below it. Which sounds good with distortion...

Then, if you went for another power chord a perfect fourth above that, it would be the F and ITs fifth, the C. In the key of C the V chord is the G - a G5 (power) chord, then, is G with the D above.

[Kap'n]

In the key of C, for example, the C5 chord is C and the G above it. You could fatten the chord up by also playing the G below it. Which sounds good with distortion...

A perfect example of this - a power chord with a fifth in the bass - which is a fourth below, are the big mean chords in the James Gang's Walk Away.

[Rickenjangle]

Funny, that's one of the ones I had in my mind's ear when i was typing that. Also, I was thinking of Alex Lifeson of Rush, who uses at least one or two of these on Tom Sawyer.

[tugboat]

This makes sense now. Sorta. What about bar chords over the root note? The fifth is already played in bar chords. For example, in A major the E is already played in the bar chord in the first progression (position? Please feel free to correct me if my terminology sucks). Does that mean bar chords over the root note in the first positon are technically major 5th chords?

[Kap'n]

The "correct" [standard, anyway] way to play a first position A major chord would be

X
0
2
2
2
0

Playing it

0
0
2
2
2
0

Would be a A/E or a second inversion of the A major

First inversion would be 3rd in the bass or

X
4
2
2
2
0 [or 5]

Note how that looks a lot like a G chord barred and with the bottom note missing?

I'm sure pc will fix any errors I post. I hope so, anyway.

[tugboat]

The 5ths make sense now. Now what's an inversion?

[Kap'n]

An inversion is simply the chord when a note other than the root is in the bass. A first inversion is with the third in the bass (the ever popular D/F#), and a second inversion is with the fifth in the bass.

[tugboat]

Another dumb question. What does third in the bass mean?

[Kap'n]

http://www.guitarchordsmagic.com/gui...ic-theory.html

[pc]

C major scale:
C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

C major chord:
C E G
1 3 5

C major with 3rd in the bass means:
E G C
3 5 1

Or in a band setting, imagine yourself just playing a C major chord, and the bass player is playing the E. And of course on a guitar you could still play an open C major chord and let that low E string ring too, but that is just for the C chord. Playing a full chord and adding a different root on the lowest string(s) requires some extra work in figuring out where your fingers go. But it is worth it when you can start hearing movement in your rhythm playing.

Hope that helps!

[pc]

...

I'm sure pc will fix any errors I post. I hope so, anyway.

You haven't posted an error yet in all the years I've known you, but sure, if you do, I'll try to help out.

[Kap'n]

I come to all this theory stuff backwards, so I'm inclined to make mistakes.

[tugboat]

That website really breaks it down cleanly! Thanks for the link Kap'n!