Output Jack

[OldStrummer]

For my first gig last Sunday, I was told it would be helpful if I brought an amp that had an output jack that could be plugged into the sound board.

I've never given this a thought, so I checked my three amps. Both of my Fenders do not have an output jack, but my Monoprice (see this post for more on the amp) has an 8-16 ohm impedance speaker output. So I took that. The sound guys had some issues with getting it to work (it was actually too hot), so they wound up mic'ing it.

My Line6 AMPLIFi 30 has a headphone out jack (1/4" not the 3.5mm). Would that work as an out to a sound board?

[S. Cane]

Actually, if you have good amps (Fender!), plugging them into the board instead of mic'ing them ain't the best option, 'cause you'll be wiping out the speakers from the whole equation.

It does look like a good idea at first, it's practical and many times you'll find lazy board guys (you know, the dudes that control the soundboard. Not sure how you call them in English) who will prefer to plug the amp instead of doing their job right and mic'ing them well.

I take my Shure SM57 everywhere I do gigs!

[FrankJohnson]

Actually, if you have good amps (Fender!), plugging them into the board instead of mic'ing them ain't the best option, 'cause you'll be wiping out the speakers from the whole equation.

It does look like a good idea at first, it's practical and many times you'll find lazy board guys (you know, the dudes that control the soundboard. Not sure how you call them in English) who will prefer to plug the amp instead of doing their job right and mic'ing them well.

I take my Shure SM57 everywhere I do gigs!

While I agree that mic'ing gives you the better "tone" and "sound" - in a lot of worship situations, that isn't the actual goal. Its a little more like a live studio setting and clean, controlled volumes "At the Board" are much better. This way, you can direct how much goes where and not have to bring the entire music level "Up" to the Guitar, drums, etc.... That is why you see a lot of drum kits shielded behind plexi.

In these instances, you can also go through your pedal board and get your feed in a monitor. I LOVE doing this acoustic, or in a really small room where volume is imperative, and the pay is good (have done a few successfully :) )


I re-read the post - that speaker out is exactly that - Speaker out - not line.
That said - I think you could use your effects loop out to the board, or a DI box between your pedals and amp.

[Offshore Angler]

You need a line out (balanced is better) RCA or XLR to feed the board. Most amps won't have that unless they're higher-end modeling.

At you're stage of your game, I'd do whatever the sound person tells me to do. They know their system and venue.

Mr. Johnson is too polite to say it, but any sound man who plugged a speaker out into a board input has zero clue of what they're doing.

Chuck

[OldStrummer]

You need a line out (balanced is better) RCA or XLR to feed the board. Most amps won't have that unless they're higher-end modeling.

At you're stage of your game, I'd do whatever the sound person tells me to do. They know their system and venue.

Mr. Johnson is too polite to say it, but any sound man who plugged a speaker out into a board input has zero clue of what they're doing.

Chuck

In full disclosure mode, I think the guy who plugged my amp's speaker out was a rookie; he indicated that when the "regular" guy showed up, he'd know what to do. What he did was mic the amp!

And yes, I'm letting the sound guys do as they please. They know more than I do, which is nothing.

[Offshore Angler]

In full disclosure mode, I think the guy who plugged my amp's speaker out was a rookie; he indicated that when the "regular" guy showed up, he'd know what to do. What he did was mic the amp!

And yes, I'm letting the sound guys do as they please. They know more than I do, which is nothing.

Strummer, what you should concentrate on now is learning what works when they mic you. Depending on the type of mic and how it gets placed, the sound and "feel" of your amp will vary greatly. Cardioid or non cardioid, on axis, off axis, on center, off center, distance and things like that. My amps have tape where I want the mic, and I carry a Beta 57 at all times. When the sound person comes up to mic my amp they know exactly what I want.

Getting consistent sound is one of the skills you need to learn for live performance.

Chuck

[S. Cane]

While I agree that mic'ing gives you the better "tone" and "sound" - in a lot of worship situations, that isn't the actual goal. Its a little more like a live studio setting and clean, controlled volumes "At the Board" are much better. This way, you can direct how much goes where and not have to bring the entire music level "Up" to the Guitar, drums, etc.... That is why you see a lot of drum kits shielded behind plexi.

In these instances, you can also go through your pedal board and get your feed in a monitor. I LOVE doing this acoustic, or in a really small room where volume is imperative, and the pay is good (have done a few successfully :) )


I re-read the post - that speaker out is exactly that - Speaker out - not line.
That said - I think you could use your effects loop out to the board, or a DI box between your pedals and amp.

Good point. I have nearly zero church time, and never really even saw a worship band in one

[renderit]

Strummer, what you should concentrate on now is learning what works when they mic you. Depending on the type of mic and how it gets placed, the sound and "feel" of your amp will vary greatly. Cardioid or non cardioid, on axis, off axis, on center, off center, distance and things like that. My amps have tape where I want the mic, and I carry a Beta 57 at all times. When the sound person comes up to mic my amp they know exactly what I want.

Getting consistent sound is one of the skills you need to learn for live performance.

Chuck

THAT! Can't tell you how many bands I have heard and was impressed with over the years only to grab my buds, take them to see at a different venue, and they sounded like chit!

[Bill Moore]

There isn't much music in my little town anymore, but last year Tobias Rene, and Los Lonely Boys teamed up for a show. They both used the (mostly) JBL system, Toby had a great mix, but when the trio came on, their sound guy turned the system into mud! I commented to Toby's sound guy, but he just nodded, and shrugged, I guess the sound guy can make a really great band sound mediocre!

[FrankJohnson]

There isn't much music in my little town anymore, but last year Tobias Rene, and Los Lonely Boys teamed up for a show. They both used the (mostly) JBL system, Toby had a great mix, but when the trio came on, their sound guy turned the system into mud! I commented to Toby's sound guy, but he just nodded, and shrugged, I guess the sound guy can make a really great band sound mediocre!

I am almost as good as an amateur sound guy now -
and have learned that a lot depends on where you are, and what YOU hear when you are mixing. that along with understanding what you have to work with, and I guess knowing what you are doing might have something to do with it.

that all said, I like hearing the vocal, and deducing the bad stuff, before adding anything. If its muddy, It might not need more highs, it might need the lows taken out/off and low cut. A lot of singers act like you poured holy water on them when you do that - but I believe its better for the "mix". It doesn't always work like you would want the board to look like - sometimes, it surprises you.

I would love to actually have someone with me who really knows what they are doing to give me some coaching someday. Until then - I try to keep both the mud and the feedback at bay.

[DanTheBluesMan]

There isn't much music in my little town anymore, but last year Tobias Rene, and Los Lonely Boys teamed up for a show. They both used the (mostly) JBL system, Toby had a great mix, but when the trio came on, their sound guy turned the system into mud! I commented to Toby's sound guy, but he just nodded, and shrugged, I guess the sound guy can make a really great band sound mediocre!

[S. Cane]

That reminded me of the good old MAD magazine issues I used to read when I was a kid. Don Martin's, Dave Berg's and Sergio Aragonés' stuff.

[Bill Moore]

I used to rent myself, and my PA out, and made a few bucks, while having a little fun.
I agree that working around the vocals makes the sound, I used to have the worst problem with bass players! I didn't have the bass in the mix, and most had the killer Acoustic/Ampeg folded horns. I would put a 30' cord on the bass player, and walk him out in the dance floor when the band did a sound check. What he thought was just right on stage would knock you over out there! Sometimes they would listen to me, but often not. If it got out of hand, I would walk on stage, and turn the bass amp down. Folks on the dance floor would hear the mix better and tell me that. I started taking a tape recorder, and hung 2 mics over the dance floor, after listening, before and after, the bass players got it.
Check out Tobias' show, that had to be hard to mix, but Gabriel made them sound great. (This girl held a phone up next to the board most of the night, not bad for a phone!)

https://www.facebook.com/tobiasrenem...8014434815626/

[Offshore Angler]

It's all about the vocals and then separation of the instruments. "Mud" is when everything is mashed together.

I like a good "crack" on the vocals, not too much verb/delay and maybe a little exciter to add silver.

The kit will get the boomer, snare and cymbals should have enough sizzle to stand out and the toms need to be there, but not boomy. There are very few times, if ever when a tom gets hit softly. Maybe during a Buddy Holly song, that's about it.

Keys is usually all about keeping the volume under control, I like to put a hot monitor on the keyboardist so they don't roll the wheel too much during performances.

Bass goes everywhere so it's easy unless you have a Stanley Clarke-style popper. I will say that a little chorus on a bass channel can do wonders to open up the bass sound in a room.

Guitar players also get hot monitors and the generally a little mid-cut. I don't put the keys and guitars through the same monitors, since they are forever competing. My rig is ping-ponged FOH with a fairly high eq so it stands out nicely on solos.

But mainly, it's about keeping things separated and avoiding bleed-over.

Chuck

[renderit]

It's all about the vocals and then separation of the instruments. "Mud" is when everything is mashed together.

I like a good "crack" on the vocals, not too much verb/delay and maybe a little exciter to add silver.

The kit will get the boomer, snare and cymbals should have enough sizzle to stand out and the toms need to be there, but not boomy. There are very few times, if ever when a tom gets hit softly. Maybe during a Buddy Holly song, that's about it.

Keys is usually all about keeping the volume under control, I like to put a hot monitor on the keyboardist so they don't roll the wheel too much during performances.

Bass goes everywhere so it's easy unless you have a Stanley Clarke-style popper. I will say that a little chorus on a bass channel can do wonders to open up the bass sound in a room.

Guitar players also get hot monitors and the generally a little mid-cut. I don't put the keys and guitars through the same monitors, since they are forever competing. My rig is ping-ponged FOH with a fairly high eq so it stands out nicely on solos.

But mainly, it's about keeping things separated and avoiding bleed-over.

Chuck

+1
Here endeth the lesson. Amen.
That's the way I used to do it.

[DanTheBluesMan]

nah-uh, smilie face EQ on everything is the only way to go, man. if the sound sucks it's the band's lack of talent, yo