Thinking Mac Again

[ch willie]

I've never liked my Macbook Pro for recording. Part of the problem has to do with having used PCs for 50+ years before I got my first Mac. Part of it is that my screen is too small. And it's partly that I've skimped on the software I've used for recording. I've never been happy with the recordings I got on Garageband--not its fault; it was my inability, I'm sure. But often, i've needed software that can do more.

I am partial to the experiences I've had on a PC, but on paper, the Mac is more reliable and in many areas so much better for what I want to record.

So I'm thinking of going with the Mac desktop with a 27 inch retina display and all the power I could ever want. It's expensive, but I don't want to go half-assed with this stuff like I've always done.

And I'm going to find a great DAW. I'm sick of making do with shitty software. I don't mean Garage Band; I do mean at least four other programs I used, can't even remember their names now.

[ch willie]

I've been reading up on Mac DAWs, looking at and listening to comparisons / contrasts. Looked at pros and cons.

It seems that Logic Pro X is the way to go. I looked at Ableton, and as robust as it is, it's not for me.

Logic Pro X costs $200. Everything I read pushed me in that direction. I looked at Pro Tools for Mac too, and it's pretty expensive.

Mac users, including you, Chuck OA--what DAW would you suggest?

[OldStrummer]

I've worked in data processing (what we used to call "IT" back in the day... ) for the past 35 years, and have been a computer junkie since the late 1970s. I got my first Mac in 1984 when they first came out and I've never looked back. My world (including my home) is populated with Macs, Linux, and Windows computers, and my preferences fall in that order.

The number of videos -- instructional and otherwise -- on guitar playing online suggest there's a very strong focus on Macs. A 27-inch monitor, some beef in the RAM department, and I see no reason why you can't get your gig on.

[dirtdog]

I've been reading up on Mac DAWs, looking at and listening to comparisons / contrasts. Looked at pros and cons.

It seems that Logic Pro X is the way to go. I looked at Ableton, and as robust as it is, it's not for me.

Logic Pro X costs $200. Everything I read pushed me in that direction. I looked at Pro Tools for Mac too, and it's pretty expensive.

Mac users, including you, Chuck OA--what DAW would you suggest?

Longtime Mac/Logic user here. If you're going Mac, this is the way to go for sure. I have a 21.5" iMac (older) and just replaced my 2011 MBP with a new one (13" screen). The MBP is, for the most part, my mobile location recording platform. I do mixing/mastering on the iMac. Cannot recommend Logic Pro X enough. There's nothing you can't do with it. And it just works.

If you can, see if you can pick up a refurb Mac and save yourself a few bucks. Upside is cost saving. Downside is you're closer to obsolescence.

With my iMac, I'm topped out at High Sierra, USB 2.0, Firewire 400 and Thunderbolt 2. I've added as much RAM as I can (16GB) and I use an external terabyte SSD drive. No retina. I'm shut out of newer audio interface hardware (like the UA Arrow that use Thunderbolt 3) but not the end of the world. Knock on wood, the thing still performs like a champ.

[OldStrummer]

If you can, see if you can pick up a refurb Mac and save yourself a few bucks. Upside is cost saving. Downside is you're closer to obsolescence.

+1

I routinely see ads for refurbished Macs from Woot (now an Amazon company) and Groupon. I've owned many refurbed Macs (I'm typing on one now) and have been nothing short of pleased. If you want to go w-a-y back (you don't, in this case), I've even bought from "Operator Headgap Systems" (I love that name -- and the guy who runs it is a veteran Mac tech). He's got some really good deals, and sometimes his software selections are a good deal, too.

[dirtdog]

+1

I routinely see ads for refurbished Macs from Woot (now an Amazon company) and Groupon. I've owned many refurbed Macs (I'm typing on one now) and have been nothing short of pleased. If you want to go w-a-y back (you don't, in this case), I've even bought from "Operator Headgap Systems" (I love that name -- and the guy who runs it is a veteran Mac tech). He's got some really good deals, and sometimes his software selections are a good deal, too.

Yeah, I'll probably go for a refurb (or used) iMac at the point where i can no longer upgrade Logic Pro X on my current Mac. I bought this one used in 2015. It's a 2011. I paid $500 for it which is a bit crazy. Was a bit of a risk but like I said, it's been a champ (knock on wood).

I was going to buy a used MBP so I could keep the connectivity of my 2011 MBP. But I got a smokin' deal on a brand new one through work. Unfortunately only has two USB-C ports so I need all kind of adapters and some of my hardware won't work because FireWire (e.g. Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2).

[pc]

For my musical purposes, it has to be Mac. No ifs, ands or buts. I've done both, and there was just no comparison in the benefits between Mac and Windows systems.

As far as DAWs go, I ONLY use Pro Tools. It is the industry standard, and, if you are adding parts to a project that is being passed around, it is expected that you have Pro Tools. I've been a PT user since it was called "Deck" back in the first days of Digidesign.

So, with that said, I recommend you go with... Logic.

Honestly, if I had it to do all over again, I'd have gotten Logic Pro X several years ago and taught myself how to use it.

I love Pro Tools and (I think, anyway) I get really great results with my recordings and mixes. However, Pro Tools is ridiculously expensive and ALWAYS lags behind in compatibility with MacOS updates.

As a perfect example, my main Mac laptop that I use for everything except music is on the Catalina OS, and I love it. It interfaces flawlessly with my iPhone and iPad, and it's gorgeous. My MacBook Pro in the studio, however, is still on the previous OS, which is kind of a drag, because I can't use the MacOS Notes app, and several others, when syncing up with my other iCloud stuff.

It took FOREVER for Avid to get Pro Tools working with Catalina, and, by the time they did, Pro Tools was already failing with MacOS 10.15.4. It allegedly works fine with 10.15.3, but, if I try to update right now, my Mac will be forced to update to 10.15.5, meaning that it would brick Pro Tools indefinitely.

Most likely, by the time they get it approved to work with 10.15.5, my only option will be to upgrade to 10.15.6.

With Logic, at least, they work a lot harder to make Mac-specific apps (like LPX and FCPX) work right with each OS update.

Finally, sure, you can absolutely export raw audio tracks (stems) and import them into the DAW of your choice, so I could just force myself to get Logic and learn to use it. I'm just not ready for that amount of re-learning right now. I actually tried Logic Pro X about two years ago, and, despite it being a very similar DAW, the workflow was totally different. All of my pre-saved plug-in settings wouldn't have worked, etc.

To be honest, my next yearly "subscription" payment for Pro Tools could me over the edge, and I might just make the switch.

Since you're starting fresh with any given MacOS DAW, I'd definitely say Logic Pro X.

[DanTheBluesMan]

I'm starting to eyeball iMacs after having been a Mac mini user for quite a while.

As a recent convert to Logic Pro, I can heartily recommend it. I had Pro Tools before, even took a week long course and a refresher class a year later, barely did diddly squat with it. Yes, lots of studios and professionals use it but that doesn't mean it's better. Then the last computer I had with PCI card slots died and I gave up on PT. Then I started messing around with GarageBand and it was so much easier. I eventually outgrew GB, looked at Reaper, didn't really click with it and decided to spend 2 bills and get Logic. Absolutely no regrets at all.

I want to have a nice hi def monitor, preferably a couple of them. If you get an iMac, make sure your video card will support more than one monitor.

I've been sticking with Minis because you can update the HDs and RAM. Well, guess how many times I've updated or even had to replace a hard drive. Zero. I did max out my Minis a bunch of years ago, then for a while maybe a generation or two endusers could not mod their minis. You can update the RAM on the new ones but not the storage drives. I think I'm just going to get an iMac and put a nice healthy 16 or 32 G of RAM and call it a day.

[ch willie]

Lately, I've been a gear whore--gotten a lot of things I've always wanted.

I've put the brakes on a little

For now, I'll use my Macbook Pro. I've just ordered a 32 inch monitor, so I''ll finally be able to see what's going on while recording and processing.

I've got Studio One with my Audiobox interface. An engineer friend told me that he prefers Studio One.

But it seems the consensus here is Logic Pro X. I'm going to start with Studio One, and if I don't like it, I'll switch to Logic. The only thing that I don't like about Logic--if what someone told me is right--is that the interface is much like Garageband. I do not like Garageband AT ALL. The stuff that they do to facilitate newbies is cumbersome. Their attempts at simplifying are great if you're new to recording, but the ease of use takes away from what could be powerful features.

[renderit]

Always been a Mac fan.
I was a UNIX bigot for years.
When Mac went Unix for MAC OS 10 it was kinda the best of all worlds!
UNIX for work (System V and AIX and some Sun Berkely) and MAC at home, then UNIX and MAC at home, now some LINUX in there.
PC's always pissed me off with no standards.
Hated having to relearn where everything was with each revision.
The better they got the more they looked like what everybody else did for the last 20 years.
If you play games, yeah a PC is all that.
You want to get something done other than a spreadsheet you need to get to the real world.
And don't even get me started on virus'...

[dirtdog]

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what DAW you use. They all effectively do the same thing with some minor variations. Comes down to what you prefer for UI/UX and workflow and what you can afford, really.

I've owned a few different DAWs and tinkered with many others (incl. Studio One). I keep coming back to Logic - can't quite put my finger on why that is. I started in that ecosystem with GarageBand (after about a decade using other software packages). So I'm comfortable with the UI. But the feature set for the $200 price tag and Apple's R&D behind it is a pretty good combination as well.

You'll also need to factor in major DAW upgrade purchases/licensing. The thing I like about Logic is I paid for it once (at version 9) and I'll never have to pay for an upgrade again. You may be subject to upgrade fees at with Studio One at some point in the future when a major release comes along. I got hosed a couple of times with Cakewalk upgrades - and now their entire software architecture has changed as the IP has moved through several different companies.

Another thing to think about is DAW interoperability with others you might collaborate with. If they're on different DAW, you can share stems. If you're on the same DAW, you can share projects - that'll include stems, automation, global settings and the like - and if you have the same VSTs installed, then all the VST settings/parameters.

[ch willie]

I have an embarrassing question: what does "workflow" mean in the case of a DAW?

[dirtdog]

I have an embarrassing question: what does "workflow" mean in the case of a DAW?

How you carry out your work - how you interact with the software, how you manage files, plug-ins, which functions you need access to most often - basically how you manipulate the software and the artifacts it generates. how the DAW integrates with any of your hardware. H

Does the way the software works fit with how with your music creation processes work?

Is there something that's critical to your creation process that the software impedes - e.g., a tool you use regularly that's buried deep in menus?

Scroll down to the bottom of this page for a multi-DAW comparison of all kinds of features grouped into a number of different categories. I really like the "Weirdness" criterion!!!!

Studio One and Logic rate consistently "good". In some areas, S1 outperforms Logic. In other areas, vice versa. Pro Tools rates higher as a function of their use in the "pro" environment.

https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html

[pc]

I have an embarrassing question: what does "workflow" mean in the case of a DAW?

Same as anything else--the process of doing the task you set out to do.

I.e., I know on Pro Tools that when I want to start recording, I hit Command-Shift-N to create new tracks, and there's a process in that dialog window to choose how many of each kind of track (audio, MIDI, Aux returns, master fader, etc.). Then there's a certain key command to start recording. And certain key command to see either the tracks window or the mix window. To add plug-ins, I know what each plugin GUI looks like, and I even have my favorite presets saved as a basis to start tweaking EQ, compression, etc. On and on like that.

If I open Logic, it's two to five minutes in the online manual, or on the web, to figure out how to do each of those things.

Same with anyone who knows one system by heart and then switches to another.

[gibsonjunkie]

Almost every musician I've ever known swears by Apple computers, but I just can't figure them out. The logic behind them remains foreign to me no matter how much I try to figure them out. I'll stick with PCs, thank you!

[ch willie]

Thanks. Workflow is something I pay attention to even though I've not articulated it that way.

I already had Studio One on the computer, opened it, and remembered why I didn't like working with it.

I downloaded Logic, and I've got a learning curve. Youtube has enough videos to get me into it.

Logic looks a lot like Garageband to me from just a glance. I haven't gotten fully into it, and I'm hoping that it's not garageband + --I made some okay tunes in GB, but I hated the recording, editing, and processing of the program. I have a feeling Logic will be much better.

[DanTheBluesMan]

Logic is night and day better than GarageBand. You have far more control on virtually every aspect. I revisited some of my GB projects in Logic and with very little effort vastly improved upon the results. I kind of wish I had downloaded it 2 or 3 years ago back when I still had a dedicated music room but oh, well.

[ch willie]

Logic is night and day better than GarageBand. You have far more control on virtually every aspect. I revisited some of my GB projects in Logic and with very little effort vastly improved upon the results. I kind of wish I had downloaded it 2 or 3 years ago back when I still had a dedicated music room but oh, well.

My ultra wide monitor will be here this week. I'm hoping that by the weekend, I'll have done some initial work on a new song.