The speakers are the original CTS alnicos. The one in the upper right of this picture was reconed earlier this year by a professional shop in Houston according to the prior owner.
The speakers are the original CTS alnicos. The one in the upper right of this picture was reconed earlier this year by a professional shop in Houston according to the prior owner.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
A beautiful quartet!
I have one of these installed in my '65 Princeton Reverb, it sounds great.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Did you ever repair/replace the cabinet? I would probably build a head cabinet just for the chassis, and repair the old cabinet and leave the speakers and reverb tank there, similar to what I did with my Super Twin Reverb (photos earlier in this thread). I think my Super Reverb weighs about 63 pounds, and I don't trust just the handle to carry it up stairs, so when I brought it home I lifted it one stair at a time, all 17 of them, lol.Originally Posted by Cogs
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
I fixed the cab. I built another baffle because the original one had disintegrated, & recovered the box. Because I couldn't source any silver/turquoise grill cloth that suited me & looked authentic, I took the opportunity to revamp it cosmetically: That meant a repro blackface panel, ivory Tolex, & wheat grill cloth. It's missing two speakers because I needed them for the Bandmaster until I could find suitable speakers, but then I just forgot about them & so it sits:
That's the nature of Fender's post-1970 furniture. CBS abandoned Leo's tried-and-true cabinetry (finger-joined corners and screw-in baffle board) in favor of cheaper lapped corners and glued-in baffle board. Repairs to the latter are all but impossible. However the original enclosures will endure for several lifetimes if used responsibly and quality repros are available from a variety of vendors. I've built many myself for my clients.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
COGS, nice job restoring the Super Reverb. It's a shame it has been sitting idle. Aren't there any suitable replacement speakers available for the Bandmaster?
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
I'm sure there are some out there but I haven't thought about it in awhile. My original plan was to get a pair of JBL D110s for the Bandmaster, but hoo boy, the pricetag. I finally settled on just finding some AlNiCo Fenders. At that point, though, the ones from the SR were performing just fine, & I wasn't pressed to get the Super up & running. So for now it is sitting in the garage, much like a broke down truck sitting on some blocks in the yard, lol
As much as I love the F-series JBL's, the D110F's are the last 10-inch speakers I'd install in any guitar amp. I tried a pair in a '66 blackface Vibrolux Reverb many years ago and they sounded like someone torturing a smoke detector with an ice pick.
Why not take a look at something from Weber or a couple of Chicago-made Jensen C10N's?
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
It could be a safety hazard sitting out in your garage. You might trip over it and get hurt. As a public service I would be happy to remove this dangerous item from your garage, lol.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Shatter my dreams, why doncha
I have to believe you are correct. A D120 in a Deluxe, though... That's a match made in heaven!
I couldn't live with myself if I put somebody else in harms way
Seriously though, this conversation has motivated me to seek a solution. I build cabinets on the side, I should be able to find something around that will work! They will have to go in the B'master so I can return these to the SR
@Cogs, I'm wondering if caps degrade over time just sitting with the amp not being played? Thinking of your idle Super Reverb.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Electrolytics age whether energized or not.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
+1!
Like finding Shangri-La or the Lost Dutchman Mine.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Your knowledge of stuff like this, PM, is one reason I respect you so much.
If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison
Likely the only reason.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Haha. Nope. You’re a good man.Likely the only reason.
If we'd known we were going to be the Beatles, we'd have tried harder.--George Harrison
Can anyone identify this amp? Hints: High gain, (3) 12ax7 tubes, (2) 5881 power tubes, built in the mid 1990's. I have blacked out the country of origin in the first photo.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Sovtek?
Tube Midget 50H. This thing is very loud! I have only found one schematic for it online, and it's kind of hard to read, but the "high" input has 4 preamp gain stages and the "low" has 3. One of the 12AX7's is the phase inverter. The "high" input is almost unusable if you crank the preamp gain. Perhaps a 12AT7 for V1 would tame it a bit.
I don't know how much they sold for new, but I think I paid no more than $500 in the early 2000's. It may have been less than that, but it was a cash purchase from a young guy who just had their first baby, so his high volume playing days were over. He had the matching 4 x 12 Sovtek cabinet, but I didn't buy that.
This thing is heavy for a tiny amp head. As you can see it has a large power and output transformer.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Or a 5751.
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Front...66 Deluxe Reverb, 66 Princeton Reverb, early 68 Vibro Champ
Back...64 Super Reverb, 65 Twin Reverb, early 68 Pro Reverb, 66 Vibrolux Reverb
All still retain their original covers and paperwork. They are currently cycling through Allen Amplification in N KY for check-ups
Long cruise, eh sailor?
Ahoy Mark, it's been a while. Great family portrait!
Still got the Stingray?
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Thanks, I may look into that. After some quick research, I found this: "12AT7 have a gain factor similar to the 5751’s but their plate current is ten times of a normal 5751 tube, and it makes a huge difference in a tone driver position." Quote is from a website called SonoBoom. I'm still reading their reviews of 5751's.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Yeah...I just lost track of you guys. I thought, for some reason, this site went T/U.
It's been nip and tuck at times but it seems like some measure of equilibrium has been achieved.
Time will tell.
How about a pic or two of your C3?
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
They come and go with regularity. I have found a passion for 1990 ZR1 Corvettes.
1990 ZR1 with 44 original miles.
cars, schmars...it's all about guitars (and amps)😁✌️
Love those 427's!
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
Did somebody say 427?
Striving to be ordinary
Proud to be a TFF Dumbass!
Does that thing use a sextet of EL34's?Did somebody say 427?
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Naw......6550's.Does that thing use a sextet of EL34's?
"When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."
That's quite a collection!Front...66 Deluxe Reverb, 66 Princeton Reverb, early 68 Vibro Champ
Back...64 Super Reverb, 65 Twin Reverb, early 68 Pro Reverb, 66 Vibrolux Reverb
All still retain their original covers and paperwork. They are currently cycling through Allen Amplification in N KY for check-ups
You can give us a rundown on those guitars, too, if you want to
1977 Fender Deluxe Reverb, List price in Dec 1977 was $370. I paid $1,350 in March 2021. The amp had several problems when I did further testing at home.
1. It broke up at very low volume (between 3 and 4 on the vibrato channel).
2. Inspection of the interior of the chassis revealed what I believe to be several wiring errors. The seller indicated the amp was last "serviced" a couple of years earlier.
I drew a detailed schematic of the amp, noting the value of all resistors and capacitors. Based on this, I believe the amp to be the AA1172 circuit, although a couple of the resistors (appeared to be original) differed in value from the schematic. I also noticed the 4 preamp tubes were JJ ECC 803-S. These are "long plate" tubes. The following is from the TubeStore website:
"The JJ ECC803-S is a warm full sounding tube, with high gain. It's great sounding in hifi amps and guitar amps (guitar players see note below). Note: Because this tube has a long plate structure it is susceptible to excessive microphonics and is therefore not recommended for use in combo amps or high gain stages. For these amps the JJ ECC83-S is a better choice". So I replaced them with ECC83-S tubes.
Can anyone shed any additional light on the ECC803-S preamp tubes?
The amp had a Jensen C12Q speaker from 2012 when I purchased it, possibly contributing to the early breakup. I installed a Celestion Vintage 30 (60 Watt), and I get more clean headroom.
I replaced all of the electrolytic caps, corrected what I believe were the wiring errors, changed a couple of resistors to match the AA1172 schematic, as well as the resistors in the doghouse and bias circuit and the amp is now sounding good.
The original filter caps all had a date code of 1973, so Fender must have had quite a stock of them on hand.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
The circuit number should be on the tube chart inside the cab, as well as the stock tubes.
From the circuit number, you should be able to find the circuit diagrams, online perhaps. If those show what you believe are correct, then I;m guessing that the tech that did the service whenever that was did this thing wrong when he wired it back up.
That said, speaking for myself as a basement musician, I wouldn't mind an earlier breakup - 3 - 4 is plenty loud for me, and I could clean it up with the volume knob on the guitar if needed. I;m no expert by any stretch, but maybe those were mods to cut back on volume and increase breakup.
Same with the tubes - if they worked fine, then they work fine. Those warnings are for the long run - and again, if it sounded good to whoever had it before, that's the important part.
********************************
"Do you call sleeping with a guitar in your hands practicing?"
"It is if you don't drop it."
- Trent Lane, Daria, Episode 1-2.
I got the exact same model:
A friend of mine gave me this one as he was about to throw it away. The amp was clearly neglected over a long period of time, and hadn't been stored in ideal conditions. There was moist, rust and many signs of quick-fix solutions in the curcuit to make it work. Needless to say, it didn't work when I got it. I even told my friend that the amp would be worth some money, even in the sorry state it was in, and if he had it repaired, he probably would get more for it than the repair / refurbish cost.
I broke out the amp chassis and shipped it to my amp doctor. He contacted me and recommended it modded to a blackface curcuit as there was som significant work needed anyway. I agreed of course. The amp also needed a new reverb tank and a new footswitch which he ordered for me.
While the amp was at the doctor's, I took out the speakers, and refurbished them myself. Also original CTS alnicos, as you can see. Dried out and cleaned the cabinet, and the only thing missing was the upper back panel and the amps chassis mount was heavily corroded, so I ordered a new panel and chassis mounts. TAD reverb tank and a new footswitch delivered with the repaired and modded amp. It turned out really great, and is my main amp for gigs.
The tube chart doesn't indicate the circuit revision like earlier Fender tube charts often did. That being said, the old tube charts didn't always accurately reflect the circuit revision of that particular amp, but did show the proper tubes used. My tube chart shows (4) 12ax7's for the preamp, and (2) 12at7's for the reverb driver and phase inverter. The schematic shows the same, but uses 7025's in place of the 12ax7's (low noise versions).
I'm not sure what type of music the previous owner played, so maybe the early breakup was something she liked. I like the clean headroom of a Deluxe and can put a pedal in front of the signal chain if I want some distortion. Any you're right, 3 or 4 is plenty loud. I often practice by putting an extension speaker in the closet and plugging it into the main speaker output jack.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Yep, same amp! It was definitely worth it to refurbish your amp. Mine came with the original "heavy" cover, and based on the great condition my chassis and speaker baskets were in, I assume the owner kept it mostly at home and kept it covered when not playing it.
Here are some pics of my chassis after replacing all of the filter caps, cathode bypass caps, bias cap, and some resistors. As you can see from the "doghouse" picture, I was short one resistor when I put together my order, so I reinstalled the original carbon composite 1K 2W resistor. (I measured it and it was still within spec), but will replace it the next time I need to order parts for anything I'm working on.
I still need to clean some of the old solder flux off of the eyelet board, but I don't have any high percentage isopropyl alcohol on hand currently.
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
Everything in the "doghouse" was changed in mine. :)
I spent about 650 usd (in todays currency) on repairs and parts, and even though the amp is far from mint, I know I could easily get double that if I tried to sell it. That will never happen though...
I have to say, the CTS Alnicos are truly great speakers!
I'm surprised your amp tech didn't change out your cathode bypass caps (the white mallory's) and more importantly the negative bias cap and resistor. (assuming your later photos were "after" the work was done).Everything in the "doghouse" was changed in mine. :)
I spent about 650 usd (in todays currency) on repairs and parts, and even though the amp is far from mint, I know I could easily get double that if I tried to sell it. That will never happen though...
I have to say, the CTS Alnicos are truly great speakers!
"When You're Riding Down the Highway at Night, And You're Feeling that Wild Turkey's Bite" ZZ Top
I have to admit that I haven't the slightest idea. (Maybe they were?) All I know is that the amp works great although it might need a minor service again soon. Lockdown pt.2 might just be the right opportunity.
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