Dealing With the House Sound System

[OldStrummer]

I'm a relative newbie to live performing, so I'm still winding my way through the ins and outs of getting on stage.

When I'm practicing at home (I'm a solo player), I usually sit on my comfy sofa, and I mostly play unplugged. Sometimes I use an amp, but my focus is generally on technique, making sure I have the chords, leads and singing in tune with the music.

But it all changes when I take the stage. For example, last night I played at a small venue (seats about 60) which has its own in-house sound system. A very nice stage manager handles the mics, cables, stands, seats, etc. So, because I play seated at home, I chose a stool, and then plugged in. Youch! My guitar was set too high, so I had to tone it down. OK, no problem, and quickly set to volume and tone I liked. Then I started. About two choruses into my first song, I realized I couldn't hear myself! Yes, I was singing into a microphone, but there was no on-stage monitor, and I actually couldn't hear the words I was singing. Worse, I couldn't tell whether I was singing in tune or not.

Given time constraints, I couldn't stop and ask the sound guy to work with me, so I muddled through my set, all the time knowing that I was likely missing notes (I'm not a trained vocalist!).

Forewarned is forearmed. The next time I go, how do work with the sound guy before I'm given the "go" signal?

[surfinbird]

Are you playing on stage solo? I assume the stage manager is working for the house so can you go early and do a sound check? Is that correct? As far as playing and hearing yourself, consider using an In Ear Monitor or floor monitor speakers. Floor monitors are also called fold back speakers and wedges.

[blackonblack]

Lots of questions. What is the monitoring system? That may lead to a deluge of others.
Always sound check before going live.

[DanTheBluesMan]

my one and only time on stage, I could barely hear myself and apparently, neither could anybody else.

[surfinbird]

Do you plan to play there again?

[OldStrummer]

Do you plan to play there again?

Yes. A good suggestion I received was before I start playing, strum the guitar and ask the audience, "Does this sound in tune?" (It should, because I just tuned it), that not only gives me a sound check on the guitar, but also on the mic. I could also ask the sound guy, "Turn up the mic so I can sing softly."

[Offshore Angler]

The sound onstage is rarely perfect. You learn to deal with it. It's all part of learning the skills required to be a musician.

In-ears are really no better than floor or flown monitors as far as the mix goes, but they do help keeping the bleed over at bay. I will warn you however, that there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING as difficult to deal with onstage than a bad in-ear mix. In-ears have a fairly steep learning curve.

All that said, in-ears and wireless mics and instruments have completely changed stages for the better. No more tripping over stuff and setup and teardown is a breeze. We're lucky to have our own sound person and equipment trailer so yes, I am spoiled.

[Michael Smith]

What was preventing you from hearing your vocals, your amp volume or the front of house volume? In a small venue like you described, I can't see why the front of house would have to be that loud, especially for a one man act. When we first started playing 2 man shows (guitar, bass and vocal), we did a few open mic's where you just followed the prior act on stage, played our 3 songs and were finished. No sound check (maybe the first act got a sound check so they could set front of house levels, but we were never first).

Once we started doing paying gigs, either as a 2 or 3 piece act, we bought a powered mixer and front of house and monitor speakers and I kind of mixed from on stage, making adjustments between songs as necessary. When I mixed for a full band, each member had their own monitor mix onstage, and I spent more time tweaking that throughout the night than the front of house mix, because if one guy turned up his amp, then the others couldn't hear the rest of the instruments as well. I always tried to keep stage volume as quiet as possible so the monitors could be heard. Having a drummer with an electronic kit really helped.

In your situation, playing a small venue, even a 1 minute sound check before you start playing the first song would be better than what you went through. Perhaps you could work that out with the sound person before you go on stage. Tell your audience you are going to take a minute to get levels set, and play and sing a simple song so you don't have to concentrate on the performance, but can listen to what you are hearing. But as has already been mentioned, on stage sound is never going to be perfect.

[Offshore Angler]

Yeah, when you start playing live you soon discover the difference between a guitar player and a performing musician. In your home studio you are cozy and everything is under control. Onstage there are countless variables and distractions. No two halls are the same.

You have to learn to go with the flow. Yes, strive for a good mix but I've seen a lot of guys who professed to be "professional" melt down in live mix situation.

You need to develop a totally different set of listening skills to play live. Almost all new performers say "I can't hear myself" at first. So they turn up. Then the next guy turns up and so on and soon the mix is total crap and it just sounds like a distorted mess out front, nobody can hear themselves think and - bad show.

The complexity of a live mix seems like it goes up Xⁿ where n = the of the number of band members.

Some shows - the sound just sucks and that's all there is too it. Adapt, improvise and overcome. I had to play a show last Sunday and the sound engineer was obviously in over his head. Just had to make the best of it.

The absolute WORST THING you can do in a situation like that is have a meltdown. You just need to work through the issues as best you can. That's how you earn your bones and get noticed and start climbing the local ladder as a musician. On the other hand, going apeshiznit over the sound is guaranteed to never get you invited back.

Can't count the shows where I struggled with hearing myself onstage and yet folks told me it sounded fine out front. You gotta trust the sound person. I look at it this way: I'm getting payed to play my guitar and the soundperson is getting paid to make sure the sound is good. If it ain't - not my problem.

Chuck

[OldStrummer]

The absolute WORST THING you can do in a situation like that is have a meltdown.

Yep, this I know, either intuitively, or because I've gotten old enough to not really care whether the performance is perfect or not. I'm not perfect, so I can't expect too much from myself. But it was a little discomfiting when I realized I couldn't hear myself over the guitar. I actually joked with the audience about them hearing me better than me.

Can't count the shows where I struggled with hearing myself onstage and yet folks told me it sounded fine out front. You gotta trust the sound person. I look at it this way: I'm getting payed to play my guitar and the soundperson is getting paid to make sure the sound is good. If it ain't - not my problem.
Chuck

This is just a way to have some fun. I don't get paid, and neither does the sound guy, the MC, or the stage manager. We're a "listening club," and I've heard some truly awful performers play (which encourages me, because I may not be better than everyone, but I'm better than some). Everyone who takes the stage gets the audience's attention and appreciation. I actually sparked some applause during a couple of songs, which means they liked my playing if not my singing.

[blackonblack]

A rule of thumb in monitor mixes: If you can’t hear a specific element, DON’T turn it up. Turn everything else down. Just like mixing, subtractive is better than additive.

IE: if there’s an offending freq, don’t boost all the others, sweep the freq and decrease it.

[gibsonjunkie]

The last time I played out it was a long time since I had done it and I was nervous as hell. As I was playing, the microphone stand started slipping and lowering a bit at a time. Instead of stopping to fix it I just kept stooping more. The sound guy finally walked up to the mic and reset it... did I feel stoopid...

[Offshore Angler]

First rule of playing live: Never Stop

[FrankJohnson]

I am by no means an expert, or big league sound guy but........I have stayed at SEVERAL Holiday Inn Express's!

If there are monitors, and there is a sound guy, AND there is time - you should have vocals in a monitor that you can hear. Maybe not perfect, but at least hear. Ringing out the systems can be funny - one player to another but again - it should be ......Close......Ish

Although experience is a HUGE part of the equation, so is the equipment, the placement and yes......the performer as well. It all bounces off of each other.

Hopefully, next time is better, and getting what you NEED is sometimes where you are instead of getting what you want.

[Bill Moore]

Most of my playing in the 60's and 70's no one had monitors, and the PA's were pretty muddy, (think 4-12 Vocalmaster). I never sang more than a dozen songs a night, but after agreeing to do the holiday season with a group with monitors, I don't know how we got by without them!
I bought a set of 4 "Hot Spot" monitors and a Peavey PA head, not much by todays standards, but we had some idea of what we were doing. I later got a set of EV-12 floor monitors, and still have them, but of course, going unused like the rest of the dinosaur PA.

[phantomman]

(think 4-12 Vocalmaster).

Ah yes, Shure's notorious "Vocalsmasher".